Jock Doubleday – douchebag hall of famer

I know I’m probably way late to the game on this one but I just learned about Jock Doubleday and his despicable faux-Randi-like $75,000 Challenge (though he’s now claiming that it’s up to $205,000).

Of course, Doubleday wouldn’t be the first to steal James Randi’s challenge idea and corrupt it by deliberately rigging it with pseudoscience to make it unwinnable. Evolution denialist Ray Comfort has his own $10,000 challenge for anyone who can present a single “genuine living transitional form”. But of course, while there are thousands of transitional fossils, conveniently, none of them are good enough for Comfort’s challenge, which defines a transitional form as. . .

. . .a lizard that produced a bird, or a dog that produced kittens, or a sheep that produced a chicken, or even as Archaeopteryx–a dinosaur that produced a bird

And since that’s not what a transitional form is, the challenge is impossible to win.

But back to Jock Doubleday. So what is his great challenge?

. . .$75,000.00 to the first medical doctor or pharmaceutical company CEO who publicly drinks a mixture of standard vaccine additives ingredients in the same amount as a six-year-old child is recommended to receive under the year-2005 guidelines of the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. (In the event that thimerosal has recently been removed from a particular vaccine, the thimerosal-containing version of that vaccine will be used.)

The mixture will be body weight calibrated.

And according to Doubleday:

14 doctors, or persons claiming to be doctors, have contacted me about publicly drinking the vaccine additives mixture. None have followed through.

So what’s wrong with the challenge (besides of course that if he’s trying to show doctors are afraid of “the toxins” in vaccines, this challenge doesn’t actually demonstrate that because it demands an action that’s not even close to being the same thing as receiving an inoculation).

Well first off, according to Autism Blog, in order to even begin the challenge, one is required to jump through tons of hoops by undergoing lots of unnecessary and totally irrelevant evaluations and filling out an obscene amount of paperwork.

Then there’s the little detail that this “challenge” lacks anything resembling appropriate scientific protocols and illustrates a total lack of scientific understanding. And a REAL study was already done in 1996 that Doubleday’s supposed refutes point.

Oh, and did I mention that his challenge has been accepted on numerous occasions but that he refused to test them for inexplicable reasons? What is Doubleday afraid of anyway?

Now I have a challenge for Doubleday. If he can prove that thimerosal causes autism, he should enter the James Randi Educational Foundation’s Million Dollar Challenge. Although the JREF challenge primarily calls for paranormal challenges, they do also allow medical claims to be tested as well. And given the enormous evidence against Doubleday’s position I’m sure they’d consider accepting Doubleday at least into their priliminary challenge. Because unlike Doubleday’s bogus challenge, the JREF challenge does really accept challengers, tests them fairly and under properly controlled scientific conditions, and as this weekend proved, they’re willing to conduct the entire test in front of a live audience of 1000 people.

So I’ll ask again, what are you afraid of, Jock?

Move aside John Edward. Someone deserves to be awarded greatest douche in the universe far more than you do.

Advertisements

26 Responses to Jock Doubleday – douchebag hall of famer

  1. You wrote:

    “Oh, and did I mention that his challenge has been accepted on numerous occasions but that he refused to test them for inexplicable reasons?”

    Really?

    http://www.spontaneouscreation.org/SC/OpenLetterToPeterBowditch.htm

    P.S. All of your speculations are fascinating. ๐Ÿ™‚

    In health,

    Jock Doubleday
    Director
    Natural Woman, Natural Man, Inc.
    A California 501(c)3 Nonprofit Corporation
    http://spontaneouscreation.org
    director@spontaneouscreation.org

  2. I don’t know your name — you seem to go by the pseudonym of mjr256 ๐Ÿ™‚ . . . but whoever you are, thanks for posting info about my vaccine offer at:

    http://www.spontaneouscreation.org/SC/$75,000VaccineOffer.htm

    If you or anyone desires to be injected with formaldehyde, aluminum, thimerosal, aborted fetal cell tissue, etc., that’s your/their choice.

    But I still don’t know exactly what your problem is with my challenge. I don’t think that “hoops” are either unethical or unreasonable when thousands of dollars are at stake. Which hoops exactly do you have a problem with?

    Vague insinuations imputing my science and my integrity don’t comprise an argument. You have to say something specific before it can be answered. ๐Ÿ™‚

    For instance, you wrote that my challenge “lacks appropriate scientific protocols.” Which protocols are these?

    You wrote that my challenge “illustrates a total lack of scientific understanding.” I’m sure we’re all eager to find out how. ๐Ÿ™‚

    You wrote: “he’s trying to show doctors are afraid of ‘the toxins’ in vaccines, this challenge doesn’t actually demonstrate that because it demands an action that’s not even close to being the same thing as receiving an inoculation).”

    Your speculations are interesting but unfortunately not informative.

    First, it is not my purpose to show that doctors are afraid of vaccines. Seventy percent of doctors have already done that:

    http://ecochildsplay.com/2008/11/18/doctor-recommends-avoiding-flu-shot-vitamin-d-instead/

    The purpose of my offer is to inform parents about vaccine additive ingredients. (Notice I didn’t say “to inform parents about the dangers of vaccine additive ingredients.”) The main thrust of my offer is simply to inform parents, and others, that these particular ingredients exist in vaccines, so that they can make informed choices. MDs don’t tell patients what’s in vaccines, so I thought I might try to take up the slack. ๐Ÿ™‚

    Second, I have never stated that ingestion of poisons is the same as injection of poisons. In fact, as I’ve said many many times to people who actually write me as opposed to blog about me, *drinking* poisons is much less dangerous than *injecting* poisons. MDs who have studied detox know this, and the MD who eventually takes me up on my offer will thank me — secretly or otherwise — for insisting on ingestion rather than injection.

    As for Peter Bowditch, his lies about me have been debunked here:

    http://www.spontaneouscreation.org/SC/OpenLetterToPeterBowditch.htm

    And if you read the layscience blog in full:

    http://layscience.net/node/464

    . . . you’ll save yourself a lot of time. Reading is one of those things that ranks up there with thinking, in the time-saving biz.

    You mentioned autism. There’s nothing in my vaccine challenge about autism. I make no claims in my vaccine challenge that vaccines are unsafe in any way.

    Regardless, it’s not up to me or anyone else to prove that vaccines aren’t safe. The burden of proof for any medicine is on the advocates of that medicine. Jenner failed to prove the safety of vaccines, and his failure continues to this day.

    “Above all, do no harm” is the oath that doctors take, and it is up to vaccine proponents to show beyond any doubt that vaccines “do no harm.” Can you do that? Let me know if you can. I’d be very interested.

    If you CAN’T show beyond any doubt that vaccines do no harm, perhaps some reading in the field would be appropriate.

    If you’re after some good reading about vaccines, I recommend starting with Tim O’Shea’s “The Sanctity of Human Blood: Vaccination Is Not Immunization.”

    There’s a fairly long list of books at the end of my article, “Into the Labyrinth: Discovering the Truth about Vaccination”:

    http://www.spontaneouscreation.org/SC/IntotheLabyrinth.htm

    As vaccines have never been shown by science to prevent any disease (you’d need a long-term controlled study for that ๐Ÿ™‚ . . . and as vaccines contain documented poisons at levels not demonstrated to be safe for human beings, I hope you have a vaccine-free day.

    By the way, if you want credibility with parents — or with anyone — you should probably sign your posts.

    Pseudonyms don’t inspire confidence. ๐Ÿ™‚

    In health,

    Jock Doubleday
    Director
    Natural Woman, Natural Man, Inc.
    A California 501(c)3 Nonprofit Corporation
    http://spontaneouscreation.org
    director@spontaneouscreation.org

  3. If you want the last word, that’s fine, but you might want to let people know you’ve disallowed comments from people who disagree with you.

  4. such as the comment that’s been pending approval on your blog for two days.

    when i have tried to RE-send it, i get this: “Duplicate comment detected; it looks as though youโ€™ve already said that!”

    i may have already said it, but it wasn’t approved by you for public consumption.

    oh well, right? ๐Ÿ™‚

  5. mjr256 says:

    It’s called a SPAM FILTER, and it automatically removes comments with an extremely high number of links in it. I have now restored your comment in all it’s idiotic glory.

    Let’s see. Where to begin. There’s more formaldehyde already in the human body than contained in vaccines. Aluminum in vaccines is also well within safety levels. Aborted fetal tissue is not in vaccines, but even if it were, why would that be harmful? Thimerosal is only in flu vaccines and is made of ETHYLmercury, which does not bioaccumulate. It’s also been shown in numerous studies to be safe:

    Thimerosal Studies:

    1. “Safety of Thimerosal-Containing Vaccines: A Two-Phased Study of Computerized Health Maintance Organization Database”
    Pediatrics, Thomas Verstraeten, MD (November 2003)
    2. “Thimerosal and the Occurrence of Autism: Negative Ecological Evidence from Danish Population-Based Data”
    Pediatrics, Kreesten M. Madsen, MD (September 2003)
    3. “Continuing Increases in Autism Reported to California’s Developmental Services System”
    Archives of General Psychiatry, Robert Schechter, MD (January 2008)
    Article relating to Jan. 2008 study “Continuing Increases in Autism Reported to Californiaโ€™s Developmental Services System: Mercury in Retrograde”:
    http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=14
    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22542677/
    4. “Neuropsychological Performance 10 Years After Immunization in Infancy With Thimerosal-Containing Vaccines”
    Pediatrics, Alberto Eugenio Tozzi, Patrizia Bisiacchi (February 2009)
    “Nearly 70% of the invited subjects participated in the neuropsychological assessment (N = 1403). Among the 24 neuropsychological outcomes that were evaluated, only 2 were significantly associated with thimerosal exposure. ”
    Articles related to thimerosal study above:
    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090126/ap_on_he_me/med_vaccine_safety
    http://www.theness.com/neurologicablog/?p=466#more-466
    5. “Autism and Thimerosal-Containing Vaccines: Lack of Consistent Evidence for an Association”
    American Journal of Preventive Medicine, Paul Stehr-Green, DrPh, MPH (August 2003)
    6. “Thimerosal Exposure in Infants and Developmental Disorders: A Prospective Cohort Study in the United Kingdom Does Not Support a Causal Association”
    Pediatrics, John Heron and Nick Andrews, PhD (September 2004)
    7. “Early Thimerosal Exposure and Neuropsychological Outcomes at 7 to 10 Years”
    New England Journal of Medicine, Thompson WW et al. (September 27, 2007)
    “Our study does not support a causal association between early exposure to mercury from thimerosal-containing vaccines and immune globulins and deficits in neuropsychological functioning at the age of 7 to 10 years.”
    Articles related to thimerosal study above:
    http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2007/09/a_bad_day_for_antivaccinationists.php
    http://www.theness.com/neurologicablog/?p=17
    8. “Association Between Thimerosal-Containing Vaccine and Autism”
    Journal of the American Medical Association, Anders Hviid, MSc (October 2003)
    9. “Mercury concentrations and metabolism in infants receiving vaccines containing thiomersal: A descriptive study”
    The Lancet, Michael Pichichero, MD (November 2002)
    10. “Thimerosal and Autism?”
    Pediatrics, Karen Nelson, MD (March 2003)
    11. “Lack of Association Between Rh Status, Rh Immune Globulin in Pregnancy and Autism”
    American Journal of Medical Genetics, Judith H. Miles and T. Nicole Takahashi (May 2007)
    12. The Rise in Autism and the Role of Age at Diagnosis
    “Autism incidence in California shows no sign yet of plateauing.” (Despite the purge of thimerosal in most vaccines seven years earlier)
    Articles related to this study:
    http://www.theness.com/neurologicablog/?p=454

    Also, you claim to not mention autism but your citing of thimerosal, which has only been implicated as a hypothesis for causing autism (albeit by scientific illiterate fools), so merely citing it as well as parroting the vaccine/autism crowd’s rhetoric implies autism regardless of whether you specifically mention it. You know this. Further, as I’ve already pointed out, there was this bit of scientific literature here involving thimerosal poisoning: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8699562?dopt=Abstract

    Just to start with, legitimate scientific protocols require first reproducing as close as possible the conditions on which you’re attempting to test. This is bare minimum. And yet your challenge specifically states that substances must be taken orally. Additionally, where are the controls? Scientific testing requires specific predictions. What specific prediction are you testing?

    “MDs donโ€™t tell patients whatโ€™s in vaccines, so I thought I might try to take up the slack.”
    Err, wrong. Yes, they do. You just have to ask them. They’re required by law to divulge that information if asked.

    “Regardless, itโ€™s not up to me or anyone else to prove that vaccines arenโ€™t safe. The burden of proof for any medicine is on the advocates of that medicine.”
    Wrong again. Plausibility plays an important role in science-based medicine. There’s many decades of literature analyzing every vaccine on the market today. Those studies show vaccines to be one of the safest medical procedures we have. Medical experts have done their jobs proving safety already. So the burden of proof now lies with the one making the accusations that they’re not.

    “and it is up to vaccine proponents to show beyond any doubt that vaccines โ€œdo no harm.โ€
    Wrong again. This is the logical fallacy known as a False Continuum. Nobody claims vaccines are 100% safe. That’s an unrealistic expectation. It’s not a choice between vaccines being either 100% safe or 0% safe. There’s a wide spectrum of degrees of safety. And what is claimed (and backed up with mountains of evidence) is that every vaccine currently on the market is over 90% safe. I’d say that’s pretty good. That’s about as safe as any medical procedure gets.

    And regarding your book recommendations, no thank you. I prefer not to waste my time of fringe figures and will stick to the consensus of experts, as one can find fringe figures in the medical community to say just about anything. If their claims were worth their salt, they’d have pass the peer review process and the medical consensus of experts would agree with them. It would be arrogant for me to pretend I know more about the subject than the consensus of experts.

    “As vaccines have never been shown by science to prevent any disease ”
    LOL. Really? See any good small pox lately? How about polio? Measles? Mumps?
    Thanks. That truly was the dumbest statement you could have said. I appreciated the laugh.

    And finally, I’m not really that hard to track down. My name is posted on numerous blog entries and anyone reading my blog on a regular basis can find it.

  6. I have a pretty sharp tongue, so I apologize if you feel personally insulted or attacked in any way.

    I hope you will take a look at an article that conclusively shows, not only that the polio vaccine did not prevent polio, but that there was significant fraud involved in changing the polio incidence figures to try to show that the vaccine worked:

    http://www.vaccines.plus.com/

    You have to scroll down a bit, to this:

    “Polio – the wrong virus, the wrong diagnosis, the wrong vaccine and the wrong cure”

    If you read this article in its entirety, you’ll see what I’ve seen many times when researching vaccines: that when it is discovered that vaccines 1) don’t work or 2) cause health problems, there is a coverup.

    If this polio article doesn’t convince you that something isn’t right in Mudville, nothing I can say will.

    I’ve concentrated on the polio vaccine in this comment because I think it’s the most emotionally charged of all the vaccines – everyone knows the image of the kid with the leg braces and crutches.

    If people can come to understand that we were ALL duped in high school about polio, then perhaps further understanding can follow.

    Best regards,

    Jock Doubleday
    Director
    Natural Woman, Natural Man, Inc.
    A California 501(c)3 Nonprofit Corporation
    http://spontaneouscreation.org
    director@spontaneouscreation.org

  7. Apologies for my assumption that you had disallowed comments from me.

    As I reference a lot of links in my posts, this has happened before and I should have thought of it. ๐Ÿ™‚

    I just sent in another comment with a few links. Hopefully that one will go through.

    Thanks,
    Jock Doubleday

  8. mjr256 says:

    This site expects people to believe that millions of people conspired to defraud the public. That claim’s going to require lots and lots of evidence. I don’t see it there and I have no intention of paying any money for it. If they’ve got evidence of foul play, they can take it up with the legal authorities. Otherwise, don’t waste my time of nonsense. Small pox has been destroyed. Polio has been destroyed in all but 5 countries. Measles has been destroyed in Australia and we were well on our way to eliminating it in the U.S. until people like Jenny McCarthy and yourself started discouraging people from vaccinating. Then all of sudden, low and behold, measles comes back!! What are the odds? It’s almost like there was a direct correlation between measles and lack of people vaccinated against measles.

    It was a bad move focusing on polio. If it wasn’t for polio research, I never would have existed. So given that I do exist, I’m more than a little disinclined to to buy your argument. If you’re going to deny basic medical science, I don’t see how we can have any meaningful conversation. Good luck on the whole vaccines don’t do anything thing.

  9. So, I guess you didn’t read the polio article (downloadable pdf). ๐Ÿ™‚

    http://www.vaccines.plus.com/

    Oh, well, right? ๐Ÿ™‚

    If you had read the article, it would have been impossible for you to write, “Polio has been destroyed.”

    If you don’t read the article, you will continue to feel righteous anger about anti-vax posts and you will continue to echo the hype they fed us in high school. If you do read it, you’ll see how the shell game worked – and what a simple, brilliant shell game it was! ๐Ÿ™‚

    As for your claim that there’s no evidence of vaccines causing autism, here’s an article published today that exposes evidence of a massive 8-year coverup of vaccine-induced autism, at the highest levels in a secret year-2000 meeting:

    http://www.infowars.com/vaccinations-deadly-immunity/

    So the question is: with whom do you want to align yourself? – people who want to cover up the adverse effects of vaccines or people who want to uncover those effects?

    You can ignore the information in these articles and continue to label anti-vaxers “douchebags.” Or, you can spend a couple of hours with the some of the most mind-blowing material you’ll ever read.

    Your choice. ๐Ÿ™‚

    In health,

    Jock Doubleday
    Director
    Natural Woman, Natural Man, Inc.
    A California 501(c)3 Nonprofit Corporation
    http://spontaneouscreation.org
    director@spontaneouscreation.org

    • mjr256 says:

      I read up until the first lie. Then I stopped. You seem to assume that because something is written and it agrees with your agenda that that makes it true. Sorry, polio is dead in all but 5 countries whether you choose to accept that fact or not. The article seems to be only convincing if you happen to already believe its premise.

      And if you would escape from Alex Jones’ cult, I recommend reading the many, many studies that debunk these claims. Just some of them are compiled at http://www.dangeroustalk.net/a-team/Vaccines.

      But it’s amazing how after many decades of being sloooooooooooooooooooowly poisoned by the vaccines, the average life expectancy has risen about 30 years. If that’s what it means to be poisoned, then definitely sign me up for more.

      “You can ignore the information in these articles and continue to label anti-vaxers โ€œdouchebags.โ€ ”
      Oh, can I? Awesome!

      You’re right about one thing though. It is mind-blowing…just not for the reasons you seem to think.

  10. Kevin Folta says:

    I’ll happily take the test, but I’ve been excluded by Mr. Doubleday because I’m a lowly Ph.D. in molecular biology and not an MD.

    I’ll do it in a heartbeat, I could use the cash, and the science behind vaccinations tells me that I’m safe as can be.

  11. To mjr256,

    You said in your latest post that you “read up to the first lie” . . . but you didn’t tell us what that “lie” was.

    That’s a good way to bring a discussion to a halt. “The author is lying!” End of conversation. ๐Ÿ™‚

    You may be interested to know that an argument consists of information, not of opinions about the information.

    If one disagrees with something and wants to use one’s disagreement to introduce information, it behooves one to say something like, “The author is incorrect when she asserts . . . ” as opposed to “The author is lying . . .” Obviously one doesn’t have any way to know if an author is lying or simply misled.

    Anyway, it doesn’t look like you will be reading Janine Roberts’ heavily documented article (I left the footnote numbers out in the excerpt below, but your readers can find them, and the references they refer to, in the .pdf file) – so here is a BRIEF excerpt:

    “Polio: The Virus and the Vaccine”
    by Janine Roberts

    “[R]egulatory and statistical changes were needed in order to give the polio vaccine the appearance of a triumph of modern medicine. What better way to achieve this than to reclassify all the cases of polio into
    numerous other diseases, resulting in a massive reduction in polio cases . . .

    “And this is exactly what they did. Prior to 1958 the definition of infantile paralysis (polio) included cases in which paralysis was minimal: perhaps manifesting itself as a very stiff neck, often accompanied by widespread pain. Polio also included cases of ‘meningitis’, or of inflammation of the membrane that protects the brain and spinal neurons. The CDC describes such cases as ‘serious but rarely fatal’.

    “Prior to 1958 these cases were scientifically referred to as ‘non-paralytic poliomyelitis’, or polio for short. Henceforward, they would be reclassified.

    “The Los Angeles County health authorities stated: ‘Most cases reported prior to July 1 1958 of non-paralytic poliomyelitis are now reported as viral or aseptic meningitis.’ The incidence of meningitis soared as official polio cases declined, as the following table (compiled from national surveillance reports)shows.

    Non-paralytic polio cases
    1951-1960 70,083
    1961-1982 589
    1983-1992 0

    Aseptic meningitis cases
    1951-1960 0
    1961-1982 102,999
    1983-1992 117,366

    “These classifications are still used today. Last year the US National Center for Infectious Diseases reported no cases of poliomyelitis but 30,000 to 50,000 cases of aseptic meningitis requiring hospitalisation. There are probably several times this number of incidents of aseptic meningitis that did not require hospitalisation, but statistics are no longer kept for such cases.

    “Then another scam was enacted to massage down the poliomyelitis figures. It took advantage of the 1951 discovery that different viruses could be present in cases of infantile paralysis. Prior to 1958 this did not matter. A doctor diagnosed a person with polio by taking note of their evident symptoms. They did not investigate to see if the poliovirus were present.

    “In 1958 a new regulation was put in place requiring doctors to only register a patient as having polio if the poliovirus were present, something that was very difficult to establish for sure. For a start, it
    was impossible to tell by looking at symptoms. The Textbook of Child Neurology reported: ‘Coxsackie virus and echoviruses can cause paralytic syndromes that are clinically indistinguishable from paralytic poliomyelitis.’

    “This new requirement for doctors caused a vast drop in the number of cases registered as poliomyelitis โ€“ a drop that ever since has been credited solely to the vaccine.

    “So, when patients diagnosed as having polio in a 1958 epidemic in Detroit were re-tested as required by this new rule, 49 per cent were found to have no poliovirus. They had to be reclassified as having ‘non-poliomyelitis acute flaccid paralysis’ even though they were suffering from symptoms identical to poliomyelitis with the same paralysis and the same pain.

    “Other polio cases were reclassified as ‘Guillian-Barre syndrome’, which some researchers now think is what crippled Roosevelt. Yet more cases are now referred to as ‘Hand, Foot and Mouth Disease’, which can also cause paralysis. And last year the Coxsackie virus was found in cases of Chronic Fatigue Syndrome (CFS), which sometimes shows polio-like symptoms of muscle damage; in the past CFS might have been classified as a form of polio.

    “If this process of reclassification had not occurred, it would have been impossible to hide the fact that infantile paralysis cases had sharply increased after the introduction of Salk’s vaccine.

    “Without the Coxsackie and aseptic meningitis reclassifications, for example, the number of reported cases of paralytic polio would have doubled from 2,500 in 1957 to 5,000 in 1959.”
    [End of excerpt]

    In Dr. Benjamin Sandler’s book, “Diet Prevents Polio,” we find that polio is a disease of malnutrition. Polio is not caused by a “virus.” You and your readers can find Dr. Sandler’s book online at:

    http://www.whale.to/v/sandler.html

    (It’s fascinating reading – but you have to read it to be fascinated. ๐Ÿ™‚

    People who make the effort to read will discover that 1) the polio “virus” has never been isolated, 2) the polio vaccine has never been shown to be effective at doing anything except causing paralytic and other diseases, and 3) the disease of nutritional deficiency known as polio is alive and well across the world.

    For those who wish to read Janine Roberts’ article in full, go to:
    http://www.vaccines.plus.com/
    . . . scroll down a bit . . . and click on this sentence:
    “Click here to download the illustrated ground-breaking May 2004 report on the faulty science around Polio – as printed in the Ecologist”

    You’re free to continue maligning me personally for my position on vaccines (your name of choice seems to be “douchebag” :), but I will not allow science to be maligned.

    Information demonstrating vaccination to be a fraud exists and requires only courage and time to meet it.

    In health,

    Jock Doubleday
    Director
    Natural Woman, Natural Man, Inc.
    A California 501(c)3 Nonprofit Corporation
    http://spontaneouscreation.org
    director@spontaneouscreation.org

  12. mjr256 says:

    “Thatโ€™s a good way to bring a discussion to a halt. โ€œThe author is lying!โ€ End of conversation. ๐Ÿ™‚

    You may be interested to know that an argument consists of information, not of opinions about the information.”

    Polio denial and HIV denial claims have all been thoroughly debunked elsewhere. I’m not interested in a “discussion”, a “conversation” or in making any “arguments” about it as the discussion on these matters is already over. The overwhelming scientific community has heard what they have to say and found their claims utterly lacking in any genuine substance. I have no interest in wasting my time debating cranks who are unwilling to change their conclusions when presented with contrary evidence. HIV hasn’t been photographed?? Fuck you. Just Google it and stop wasting my time with absurd nonsense.

    Polio has not be “re-classified” into other diseases; it’s not there. It’s gone! It’s only endemic in 5 countries in the world. And polio is very distinct.

    And I find it hilarious that you’re perfectly willing to quote the CDC when you think you can twist what they say to support your beliefs but whenever they say something that goes against your beliefs (pretty much everything), they’re part of the evil cover-up and not to be trusted.

    The conspiracy theory is a favorite for the paranoid. It is a convenient answer when the numbers just don’t add up. It takes no real proof, and often the absence of proof is just proof it exists! They all just KNOW they have “The Truth” and are uninterested in anything that might challenge that belief. Science doesn’t matter. Evidence doesn’t matter. Reason itself doesn’t matter. None of that matters, other than how they can be twisted to reach the desired conclusions, and any scientific evidence conflicting with that belief system must to them be the result of a coverup. This is all just like a cult, where, the more evidence is presented to members that they are in a cult, the more tightly they cling to their cultish beliefs.

    I have no interest in your bullshit propaganda material. Either follow the scientific process and get something published in a reputable peer-review journal or don’t waste my time. You have no interest in science at all. You’re a crank only interested in promoting your bullshit agenda that’s been debunked long ago. And as Jefferson said, ridicule is the only weapon against unintelligible ideas.

    http://www.dangeroustalk.net/a-team/Vaccines
    http://www.dangeroustalk.net/a-team/Conspiracy

  13. To mjr256:

    Sandler’s book will be there if ever you choose to live up to your portrayal of yourself as an investigator.

    But remember: no one will be angry at you or think less of you if you choose not to investigate.

    There is nothing to fear. You are free to do as you will, without repercussion.

    You will not be judged.

    Sincerely,
    Jock Doubleday

  14. Someone just drink the foolish concoction and shush up. I think mjr256 should just drink it up. What is he afraid of?

    • mjr256 says:

      I would love to, L.M., but Jack won’t let me because I’m not a doctor. ๐Ÿ˜ฆ

      Actually, he doesn’t seem to want to test ANYONE. Not that it would matter anyway as his test doesn’t involve vaccines to begin with and cranks like him won’t be convinced no matter what.

  15. mjr256 says:

    Gee, thanks. I can’t say the same for you or Roberts, who despite living in an age of unprecedented access to knowledge opt to promote utter crap by mixing some cherry-picked scientific medical facts with pure speculation & misinformation, without distinguishing among them, and then presenting them as cutting-edge medicine.

    Ironically, polio would have probably been eradicated from the planet by 2002 if not for the propagation of a vaccine myth. In Uttar Pradesh, a small, impoverished Indian village, which, in 2000, accounted for 68% of all polio cases in the world, a myth that polio vaccination was actually a government conspiracy to sterilize children prevented led to a massive reduction in the number of people in the village getting vaccinated against polio. As a result, they didn’t reach herd immunity and thus we failed to rid the world of the horrible disease.

  16. Kevin Folta says:

    I’ve been sucked into this nonsense lately too- I’ll drink Jock’s doofus brew any time. The science is on our side. The part that scares me is that these folks have traction and it is much easier to frighten than to educate.

    If they are wrong and we have return of preventable disease, you know they’ll deflect that blame too.

    Keep up the good work. If you want to see some funny anti-vax stuff check out my blog today.

  17. Still waiting for the science that demonstrates vaccines to be safe or effective:

    Gary Null at New York State Assembly Hearing October 13 2009:

    My $220,000 offer to M.D.s and other professionals to drink their own vaccine poisons:

    http://www.spontaneouscreation.org/SC/VaccineOffer.htm

    Come on guys, you can do it!

    Did you get your swine flu vaccine yet? Now there’s a safe vaccine ๐Ÿ˜‰

    http://www.infowars.com/bob-chapman-talks-about-suspicious-flu-deaths-on-u-s-navy-ship/

    Parents of unvaccinated children (give ’em a shout and ask ’em how their children’s health is!)

    http://www.thedoctorwithin.com/unvaccinated/Parents-of-Unvaccinated-Children.php

    Remember, polio HAS NO VIRUS and therefore could not be cured by a vaccine even if vaccine worked. Polio was called “the summer disease” because it was caused by the pesticide lead arsenate, which was sprayed on fruit orchards in the spring and summer:

    http://www.vaccines.plus.com/

    (Scroll down and click on “Click here to download the illustrated ground-breaking May 2004 report on the faulty science around polio.”)

    Have a vaccine-free day!

    • mjr256 says:

      Then you must not be looking very hard because everyone else in the world has no trouble at all finding it. A whole bunch of it can be found here:

      http://www.dangeroustalk.net/a-team/Vaccines

      As for your expert Gary Null, he’s not even a doctor, let alone an expert on vaccines, infectious diseases, or any other related field. He has a PhD in “Interdisciplinary Studies” from Union Institute & University, a private college that gives degrees by correspondence from Cincinnati, Ohio. According to Null, his thesis was titled, “A Study of Psychological and Physiological Effects of Caffeine on Human Health.” Union Institute & University is accredited by the North Central Association of Colleges and Schools, but its accreditation does not cover awarding of PhDs in the sciences, only in the humanities. Null is a New York State Registered Dietitian and Nutritionist.

      And Alex Jones is certainly no expert on vaccines, medicine, science, or reality.

      The seasonal flu just became available two weeks ago, and this first batch is ideally for children and pregnant women, as I’m sure you know. I have received my seasonal flu vaccine and intend to get the H1N1 vaccine next week. And of course the H1N1 is the exact same vaccine as the seasonal flu vaccine with the only difference being that a different strain of flu is in it. But of course, expert that you are, you already knew that, right? So then you also know that this vaccine has been safely used for decades.

      Further, nobody claimed vaccines “cured” polio. Vaccines don’t “cure” anything. They prevent disease. And thanks to the vaccine, polio has been eradicated from over 95% of the planet. But of course, expert that you are, you already knew that.

      And given how opposed you are by rare vaccine injury, I’d think you’d be outraged at the number of deaths from easily preventable diseases simply because people didn’t vaccinate. 36,000 people die every year in the U.S. from seasonal flu, most of whom because they either chose not to vaccinate or because a medical condition prevented them from being vaccinated and they caught the disease from their unvaccinated neighbors.

      So Jack, this will be the last one of your bullshit comments that will be allowed on this site and I advise you to go fuck yourself or throw yourself under a bus, you delusional psychopath!

  18. Cynthia says:

    I think this is amazing after Jock deleted me from Facebook (I’m still not sure how we ended up friends on there-prob a mutual friend who is a yogi) for cracking jokes about his out of this world conspiracy theories on vaccines, fluoridated water, and the Illuminati. All the while, some of his ‘peace loving’ hippie, public breast-feeder friends continued to harass me (until I blocked them) -accusing me of being ashamed of breast feeding” because I chose to do it discreetly and considerately, OUT of view of the general public at large. Personally, I would never be comfortable having strangers passing by me, while Iโ€™m feeling exposed, which, Iโ€™m sure, would interfere with the โ€˜letting downโ€™ of milk, etc. etc. Anyway, he did give me some pretty nice compliments on my artwork, which is what got me curious to do a Google search on him. Now I understand more why he was so sensitive on the vaccine issue.

    The fact is, plague would reassert itself without these vaccines. This blissful idealism that Jock espouses, with the ‘return to nature’ freedom theme, is a siren’s call to all of us who feel the pressure of an industrialized society, economy etc etc. But what is concerning is that Jock tends to be able to attract and convince an impressive number of a certain type of person- the demographic of emerging 18 year old, idealistic, first year voters who are longing for a paradisiacal existence- and who just happen to be very fertile and ready to populate the earth with their very publicly breast-fed children, before they can really afford a child. Of COURSE these young people love to hear the prophetic message Jock proselytizes-anti-establishment to the extreme, all the while validating the young adult, as they are, uneducated but strong, en masse, and poised to show their might in ways both large and small- whether it be the abandonment of all the polite and modest social graces we’ve developed since apelike cave days, to total rejection of proven science and modern medicine, and eventually the complete adoption of antisocial behaviors bordering on anarchism. History shows that this is not a ‘slippery slope’ but a legitimate premise citing the rise and fall of any great city or nation throughout the written annals in the course of humankind.

    Anyone who is truly educated, and well adjusted in this society, knows the history of suffering behind the greatest innovations that have transformed the general standard of living for everyone in communities that embrace these scientific strides- like fluoridated water and vaccines. A healthy person doesn’t baste themselves in paranoia, all day, everyday, which was what I witnessed while on Facebook with Jock. That is not the hallmark of a well integrated, informed person who could inspire me or anyone like me.

    Let’s just hope that any future legislative leanings that actually still hinge on the vote of the majority, are influenced by the ‘right’ group. It is becoming more and more frightening how ignorance is gaining the upper hand, and like a band of thieves, they are ganging up together, and they may very well end up deciding what happens to ALL of us.

  19. Cynthia Pendery says:

    Thank you so much! You’re awesome mjr256.

  20. Cynthia Pendery says:

    http://www.comcast.net/articles/news-world/20100524/EU.Britain.Autism.Doctor/

    Britain bans doctor who linked autism to vaccine

    Mon May 24, 4:59 PM EDT

    The doctor whose research linking autism and the vaccine for measles, mumps and rubella influenced millions of parents to refuse the shot for their children was banned Monday from practicing medicine in his native Britain.

    Dr. Andrew Wakefield’s 1998 study was discredited โ€” but vaccination rates have never fully recovered and he continues to enjoy a vocal following, helped in the U.S. by endorsements from celebrities like Jim Carrey.

    Wakefield was the first researcher to publish a peer-reviewed study suggesting a connection between autism and the vaccine for measles, mumps and rubella. Legions of parents abandoned the vaccine, leading to a resurgence of measles in Western countries where it had been mostly stamped out. There are outbreaks across Europe every year and sporadic outbreaks in the U.S.

    “That is Andrew Wakefield’s legacy,” said Paul Offit, chief of infectious diseases at the University of Pennsylvania. “The hospitalizations and deaths of children from measles who could have easily avoided the disease.”

    Wakefield’s discredited theories had a tremendous impact in the U.S., Offit said, adding: “He gave heft to the notion that vaccines in general cause autism.”

    In Britain, Wakefield’s research led to a huge decline in the number of children receiving the MMR vaccine: from 95 percent in 1995 โ€” enough to prevent measles outbreaks โ€” to 50 percent in parts of London in the early 2000s. Rates have begun to recover, though not enough to prevent outbreaks. In 2006, a 13-year-old boy became the first person to die from measles in Britain in 14 years.

    “The false suggestion of a link between autism and the MMR vaccine has done untold damage to the UK vaccination program,” said Terence Stephenson, president of the Royal College of Paediatrics and Child Health. “Overwhelming scientific evidence shows that it is safe.”

    On Monday, Britain’s General Medical Council, which licenses and oversees doctors, found Wakefield guilty of serious professional misconduct and stripped him of the right to practice medicine in the U.K. Wakefield said he plans to appeal the ruling, which takes effect within 28 days.

    The council was acting on a finding in January that Wakefield and two other doctors showed a “callous disregard” for the children in their study, published in 1998 in the medical journal Lancet. The medical body said Wakefield took blood samples from children at his son’s birthday party, paying them 5 pounds (about $7.20) each and later joked about the incident.

    The study has since been widely rejected. From 1998-2004, studies in journals including the Lancet, the New England Journal of Medicine, Pediatrics and BMJ published papers showing no link between autism and the measles vaccine.

    Wakefield moved to the U.S. in 2004 and set up an autism research center in Austin, Texas, where he gained a wide following despite being unlicensed as a doctor there and facing skepticism from the medical community. He quit earlier this year.

    Offit said he doubted Britain’s decision to strip the 53-year-old Wakefield of his medical license would convince many parents that vaccines are safe.

    “He’s become almost like a Christ-like figure and it doesn’t matter that science has proven him wrong,” Offit said. “He is a hero for parents who think no one else is listening to them.”

    Appearing from New York City on NBC’s “Today Show” on Monday, Wakefield described Britain’s decision as “a little bump on the road” and vowed to continue his research into vaccines and autism.

    “These parents are not going away; the children are not going to go away and I most certainly am not going away,” he said.

    He claimed the U.S. government has been settling cases of vaccine-induced autism since 1991.

    However, two rulings by a special branch of the U.S. Court of Federal Claims in March and last year found no link between vaccines and autism. More than 5,500 claims have been filed by families seeking compensation for children they claim were hurt by the vaccine.

    Attempts to reach Wakefield through the Texas research center and his publisher were unsuccessful.

    Wakefield has won support from parents suspicious of vaccines, including Hollywood celebrities like Jim Carrey.

    Carrey and his former partner, actress Jenny McCarthy, who has an autistic son, issued a statement in February asserting Wakefield was “being vilified through a well-orchestrated smear campaign.”

    “It is our most sincere belief that Dr. Wakefield and parents of children with autism around the world are being subjected to a remarkable media campaign engineered by vaccine manufacturers,” they said.

    In Monday’s ruling, the medical council said Wakefield abused his position as a doctor and “brought the medical profession into disrepute.”

    At the time of his study, Wakefield was working as a gastroenterologist at London’s Royal Free Hospital and did not have approval for the research. The study suggested autistic children had a bowel disease and raised the possibility of a link between autism and vaccines. He had also been paid to advise lawyers representing parents who believed their children had been hurt by the MMR vaccine.

    Ten of the study’s authors later renounced its conclusions and it was retracted by the Lancet in February.

    At least a dozen British medical associations, including the Royal College of Physicians, the Medical Research Council and the Wellcome Trust have issued statements verifying the safety of the measles, mumps and rubella vaccine.

    This verdict is not about (the measles) vaccine,” said Adam Finn, a professor of pediatrics at the University of Bristol Medical School. “We all now know that the vaccine is remarkably safe and enormously effective… We badly need to put this right for the sake of our own children and children worldwide.”

    ___

    Online:

    Ruling on Wakefield, http://www.gmc-uk.org/Wakefield_SPM_and_SANCTION.pdf_32595267.pdf

  21. KnowledgeOfJock says:

    Don’t bother with Jock – he’s dirt poor and can’t even afford to keep renewing his domains, let alone pay out $200k for a bogus experiment. Please join me in having compassion for this troubled soul.

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s

%d bloggers like this: