Thanks to Skepchick for pointing me in the direction of this hilarious website trying to sell people on “Quantum Jumping.” This is another in a long line of pseudoscientific nonsense being sold to the public with misappropriations of the word “quantum” and that promise miracles:
Do You Wake Up Every Morning Feeling 100% Fulfilled?
Let’s not skirt the issue here. Do you wake up every morning knowing – with every fiber of your soul – that you’re enjoying the most creative life you can make for yourself?
- Do you love your work?
- Do you spend enough time with the family?
- Are you earning enough?
- Are you putting your creativity potential to full use?
- Are you as healthy as you should be?
- Are you truly happy?
99% Of People Would Say ‘No’
It’s no surprise really. We’ve all got issues in our lives that need fixing, whether they’re professional, personal or health-related.
Issues that we just can’t seem to iron out, no matter where, how or who we look too. In fact, sometimes we’ve searched so much for the answer that we begin to wonder whether it really exists anywhere in this universe!
Here’s the thing – sometimes, it doesn’t.
And that’s where my secret comes in. Why? Because this secret to leave my body and jump into other dimensions has laid both the foundations of all my personal successes, and also the successes of every single person I’ve revealed it to. If you thought Astrological signs were powerful, wait until you start jumping!
Jumping has helped me:
- Attract wealth and abundance
- Instantly boost my creativity and pick up new skills like painting, photography and singing
- Get guidance from other dimensions and always know what decision to make when faced with multiple options
- Find inspiration, wisdom and knowledge while jumping into another universe
- Helped me MANIFEST everything I DESIRE
I’m reminded of $cientology’s personality test that ensures no one can ever pass. Of course the person reading the website isn’t 100% satisfied with their life. NO ONE IS. And no matter what these hustlers claim, nothing they do will make you 100% satisfied with your life. Human beings are incapable of being 100% satisfied. Even if everything was going right with your lif, you’re a rich, famous, powerful, have the most beautiful spouse in the world who you love, have great kids, have loads of loving friends and family, etc–you’ll still find something missing in your life. It’s just human nature. Maybe you’ll be satisfied for awhile, but eventually you’ll get bored with having everything and will crave adventure or something different. Or maybe you live an adventurous life already, so you’ll get tired of that. There’s an old (and rather crude) expression: “Show me a beautiful woman and I’ll show you a man tired of fucking her.”
This is no better than The Secret and like with that, it relies on people’s natural capacity for self-deception. As is pointed out in the recent film, The Brothers Bloom, the perfect con is the one where “everyone gets what they want.” And if enough people try it, there’s a high statistical likelihood that enough small coincidences will occur that will reinforce the belief that this scam actually works, because if you want to believe badly enough, you’ll seek out any reason to justify that belief. The 2 psychological phenomena that come to mind are confirmation bias and cognitive dissonance.
But maybe I’m not giving this a fair shake. What is “Quantum Jumping” anyway?
What On Earth Is Quantum Jumping?
Quantum Jumping is the process of “jumping” into parallel dimensions, and gaining creativity, knowledge, wisdom and inspiration from alternate versions of yourself.
…Are you still with me? Did that sound crazy? It did to me at first – and that’s precisely why I’ve been holding on to it until the right time, a time when someone like you would be willing to open your mind to it.
And that time is now. Why? Because some of the finest minds on the planet are starting to discover powerful evidence supporting my claims. Creative and scientific geniuses like Stephen Hawking, Michio Kaku and Neil Turok, all of whom are responsible for unbelievable breakthroughs in the field of quantum physics.
But just as important as the acknowledgement of experts is what I’ve seen and experienced for myself. After sharing Quantum Jumping with selected students in my seminars, I’ve seen them manifest incredible results. Stories of creativity and inspiration, stories of rags to riches, the kind of stories you’d usually only find in those feel good Hollywood blockbusters.
And now it’s time for you to have your own story – which is why I’ve compiled a sample 6-module Quantum Jumping Introduction Course, so that you, and as many people as possible can gain an understanding of this remarkable phenomenon, and change your life for the better.
Wow! That’s funny because I’ve never heard Stephen Hawking say anything remotely like this. Nor Michio Kaku. I’d love if this website would cite exactly where these scientists discussed it. Sadly, they never do. And if this was as successful as these guys claim, why aren’t they rich and famous? Can they cite any specific examples of former students of theirs who have achieved great success who we might know of?
This Burt Goldman must be a zillionaire a thousand times over with this new science he’s pioneered. I can’t wait to see the peer-reviewed studies showing this actually works. Oh, right. There are none.
I highly recommend this Balony Detection Kit:
Skepacabra 
Thanks for the tip about the Baloney Detector video. Excellent.
However, I was so looking forward to getting in touch with my sexy rock star self with a bit of Quantum Jumping. Another dream busted.
’till next time.
Richard
I agree with everything here so far, but would you examine a book A Lawyer Presents the Case for the Afterlife. By Victor Zammit?
Ecerpt following:
‘Rebutting the skeptics on EVP and ITC
What do the debunkers say about electronic voice phenomena?
Of the objections raised by the debunkers and closed minded skeptics I quote a leading representative of the hardcore skeptics, an assistant Professor of Psychology at Pace University in the United States, Professor Hines. In his book called Psudoscience And The Paranormal—a Critical Examination of the Evidence (1987) we are told the following on page 76. Remember, this hardcore skeptic explicitly claims that his work is supposed to be a ‘critical examination of the evidence’.
Read the whole book, very convincing.
I’ve got a huge list of books I already need to get to and I’ve studied enough about afterlife claims and EVP to know that if I never read another thing about them, it’ll be too soon. It’s not me who needs to be convinced. If Mr. Victor Zammit can actually demonstrably prove his claims, he can write a study and have it peer-reviewed by the appropriate scientific experts in whatever field that is. If he can convince appropriate scientific experts, I’ll start to pay attention and see if those scientists have a good reason to believe in it.
But right off the bat, looking at just one paragraph, I’m not filled with much confidence. Skeptics aren’t debunkers. Science is a meritocracy, so ideas either sink or swim on their own merits. If you put forth an idea and can’t handle it getting ripped to shreds by scientific inquiry under the same standards that every other idea is scrutinized, then you have no business doing science. It’s that simple. Skeptics do have an open mind, only not so open that their brain falls out. What Mr. Zammit seems to want is for special treatment for his ideas. Doesn’t work that way. If he actually cared about what is true, he would have tried as hard as possible to find every possible hole in his claim before ever presenting it publicly. So instead of accepting honest criticism graciously, he wants to malign his critics. That’s a huge red flag.
So based on that one paragraph alone, I’m horribly unimpressed. And I certainly have no intention of entertaining the thought of reading it. Let him convince those far more knowledgeable than myself first.
[…] went to check out other blogs about the Quantum Jumping scam and found a doozy – over at Skepacabra. And unfortunately, this “mjr256″ (real name missing from his blog) seems to be more […]
My first time across your blog. Perhaps you’ve dropped some gems along the way in your work, but this article seems strained to find meaningful criticism.
The website in question is saturated with the intent of SELLING. A cookie-cutter template, I’ve seen a dozen like it (written and organized exactly the same way, down to the Signature they add at the end).
You have to push that aside and weigh the value of the core Ideas being peddled. In this case, it is the use of one’s mind to engage alternate-selves at different preconceived places in their lives. The goal is to feel out the resonance of their current state, the one you are trying to achieve, in order to have an actual emotional imprint of what that feels like. You then leave the meditative session with the feeling still fresh, and use that to aid you in your Manifestation efforts.
You could probably put together your own method and program to achieve those ends, if you follow the creative visualization, self-hypnosis and alpha-brain-state crowds (much like ol’ Burt and his Silva Method connections).
Anyways, the ideas are completely within the realm of human potential.
Your article and his are quite similar at the core. Both are devoid of heart and good intentions, and they are just serving an obvious (and lame) purpose.
Quantum Jumping guy should give his info away for free and do a lecture-circuit or something.
Skepacabra guy should reacquaint himself with his About page, and re-examine his methods of “critical thinking and scientific skepticism”. We may then in the future benefit from his enlightening dissection of fringe ideas and such.
There’s not a single mention of the Quantum Jumping idea itself…what is your skepticism investigating exactly?
Just pumping out another article, or what?
You’re a good writer…I liked the Show me a beautiful woman quote…but eh, put some real substance into it 😛
I save my meaningful criticisms for claims worthy of them. Absurdities don’t deserve them. As Thomas Jefferson said, “Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions.”
But I did indeed point out that the creators of the site inaccurately apply the term “quantum” and that there’s no scientific basis for any of the claims being made. I also pointed to Michael Shermer’s superb dissection of classic psuedoscience red flags, many of which are clearly visible on the website in question.
Don’t presume that this is the beginning of the investigation. One can indeed carefully consider a proposition, apply critical analysis to it, and then still reach the conclusion that the proposition is simply idiotic. Even fringe ideas require evidence. And until the appropriate measures are taken to have the claims in question tested by the scientific peer-review process, I’m under no obligation to take those fringe ideas seriously.
Jay, I found your remarks well thought out, kind, and fair. Thank you for your level-headed and fair response.
Be Well,
Deborah Katz
It’s irrelevant that the author’s of the site are complete goofs and that they do a very poor job at trying to sell their ideas.
Source of the claim = not reliable, nor is anything they say (grain of salt).
It’s because he is trying to sell a program/idea which somebody with enough knowledge can put together on their own. He is preying on ignorance and impressionability to make a buck.
However, anybody with enough discernment can cut through all of his sales talk and pseudoscience and still walk away with something of value.
The crux of the claims are not absurdities, and are quite possible. Not much different than shamanic techniques of inner-mind travel to engage animal guides, etc., or to astral/lucid travel to perform similar.
I’m sorry I cannot scientifically verify my past innermind journeys for you, although I can tell you they have been very real, profound, and radically transformative.
I don’t think attaching EEGs, anal thermometer probes, and whatever other contraptions, would aid in your understanding of what I or others went through. Alas that is the problem with purely subjective experiences – they are hard to measure.
Look into Dr. Rick Strassman’s clinical study of DMT, a powerful psychedelic which can propel users into other realms, produce profound spiritual/ontological insight/perspectives, contact with entities, etc. It’s not the scientific data he collected that was interesting, but the immediate first-hand accounts of the people going through the experience.
Great pointing out how they incorrectly use the word quantum…In their case, it’s a sales term. Quantum Jumping is what they are selling.
They throw in physicist’s names to tie it into mainstream mentioning of alternate/parallel dimensions, I believe. Just another sales tactic.
Again your just poking at the man and his method, instead of going after the core of the ideas presented.
Your writing is empty and you are a poor skeptic. I base this of course only on this one page and engagement. Perhaps your prolificacy has produced something worthwhile, or perhaps you’re just going through the motions at this point- pumpin’ em out case that’s yer appointment.
Oh how much more interesting this would all be if you spent time discussing real points.
If your going to wait around for the scientific peer-review process to give you green lights, well, then you’ll be missing out on a lot of thought, experimentation and speculation you could instead be doing independently (producing far greater results and data).
PS – A $100 price tag for the program (though coming with a 1-year full-money back guarantee), is not a deterrent for anyone who really wants to get at that information. Anyone resourceful enough with find it elsewhere, without padding ol’ Burts pockets with cash.
People who want it, will find it, and that’s why it doesn’t matter how (poorly) he sells it. It’s the core information, and if that can be used, that matters.
I’m not criticizing the site design but the product. But I never read the rule that says one cannot find poor presentation funny.
While I begin by mocking the transparent style in which they attempt to suggest everyone needs their stupid product, I very clearly deviate from that and quote their description of what it is they claim to be selling in the first place. My chief criticism is that the product/service they’re providing is nonsense and obviously so. There’s no scientific peer-review supporting these ideas and they dishonestly attempt to attach the names of Stephen Hawking, Michio Kaku and Neil Turok to the product.
“I’m sorry I cannot scientifically verify my past innermind journeys for you, although I can tell you they have been very real, profound, and radically transformative.”
Well sorry but I don’t find your personal, unfalsifiable, anecdotal experience very convincing. In science, extraordinary claims need to be properly tested before assumed to be true. The term “true” itself is utterly meaningless unless it can be demonstrated to others.
And I know all about DMT already. I hope you don’t mean to suggest that drug trips are literally transporting people to other worlds and allowing them access to inter-dimensional beings. They’re just experiencing brain damage.
I would love to discuss “real points” had they made any. They didn’t. And considering your willingness to place anecdotal experience above actual empirical evidence, I don’t think you’re a proper judge of who is and isn’t a good skeptic. I don’t even think you really understand what the term means, as evidenced from the following quote:
“If your going to wait around for the scientific peer-review process to give you green lights, well, then you’ll be missing out on a lot of thought, experimentation and speculation you could instead be doing independently (producing far greater results and data).”
No. I’m not an expert. This is like suggesting that one shouldn’t wait for the brain surgeon but should try to operate themselves as an experiment. Frying your brain with drugs is not experimentation. We already know what it does to your brain, and the person undergoing the experience’s perception is so impaired as to make them the last person who’s insight should be relied upon.
The reason the scientific method is superior to all others in the quest for real knowledge is that it’s a rigorous meritocracy where only good ideas backed by high-level evidence survive while bad ideas backed by only low-level or no evidence at all are discarded like used condoms. Science is self-correcting, where all facts are subject to revision upon the arrival of new evidence. Science is by nature skeptical of claims and those who practice scientific skepticism understand how flawed human perception is. Eyewitness testimony and anecdotal evidence are notoriously weak forms of evidence. And it’s a good thing that they are because otherwise we’d all have to accept that millions of people are abducted by space aliens every year, among other things. The peer review process is in place to prevent error. And while it may very well be that it slows down the acceptance of some claims that may happen to be true, more importantly, it ensures that misinformation is kept out. It’s a process of editing information.
Science is elitist by nature and it ought to be. The vast majority of the public is scientifically illiterate and even most of those who aren’t but still aren’t professional scientists don’t necessarily have the expertise to conduct a properly controlled study, especially not one attempting to analyze an alleged whole new concept that would have major ramifications in numerous fields of science. To think otherwise is just hubris.
Ideas based on insufficient evidence should be viewed as conjecture and speculation. And it’s not the job of the scientist to prove a phenomena but the opposite. A good study introduces a hypothesis and then does everything possible to test it and try to debunk it. If they can’t debunk it, they send it off to peer-review where it’s then the job of other experts in the field to try to debunk it. A proper scientist welcomes challenges to their claims.
I recommend the following article on how science evaluates claims:
http://www.thehumanist.org/humanist/10_jan_feb/Galef.html
I can understand your skepticism but what you fail to realize is that like so many others like you,who are sadly and profusely endoctrinated by conventional “science”, is that your perceptions remain limited to strictly the subjective. P.D. Ouspensky points out in “Tertium Organum” that we first must concieve the seemingly “impossible” before anything that ever can be possible is ever possible. You are like, most scientists, with the blinder on like a horse and you only see one way, forward and not the full 180 degree view of things. This is sadly what most “science” has become because of the fact that there IS an underworld that that “edits”, “Suppresses” and “censors” an ideas that go beyond the “subjective.”
Einstein actually showed mathematically that a multitude of universes co-exist in the same physical space as other demensions, the existence of which CANNOT be proven logically but simply because they can’t be proven logically, DOES NOT rule out their possible existence. Humans are unique in their capacity to leap beyond logic. FOr thousands of years, many discoveries have been suppressed from the populations of our planet to keep them in bondage. The burning of the libraries of Alexandria is one example of how information can be suppressed. ANother example would be the common technique of suppression of scientific information by alteration of the information itself. Perhaps the most blatant and far reaching of alteration of data was the alteration of Maxwell’s equations. James Clerk Maxwell was a mathematical genius to lived in the late 19th century. His original work, which is available to covert scientific departments in the government, had the potential to radically alter the course of our civilization. Maxwell published his epic material on electromagnetics waves. His material ndealt not only with electrical and magnetic waves, but also the relativistic/etherial psycho-active component of these waves (representing electromagnetics of the second order and above) The equations also included transformations that enabled the change from inertial frames of reference to non-inertial frames of reference.Maxwell’s original equations were written in Quaternion notation, a complen Pythagorian based mathematical system available at that time before Vector Analysis was introduced by Oliver Heaviside. Today’s generalized equivalent of Quaternion is Tensors. Bear with me now. In short, Maxwell’s original work gave the necessary information for gravitationial propulsion and psychoactive devices. Someone somewhere recognized this, for shortly after his death, Oliver Heaviside, the chemist Willard Gibbs, and physicist Heinrich Hertz decided to “edit” of “interpret” Maxwell’s famous equations which were, in the original form, the foundations of electromagnetics and Unified Field Theory (UFT). This “unholy trio, especially Heaviside, disregarded the Quaternions or Scalar components of Maxwell’s original equations, because they represented potentials and not field. He thought potentials were akin to “mysticism”, because “everybody knows that fields contain mass, and mass cannot be created from apparently nothing. (Well, in reality it can but that too is something that the “conventional establishment” supresses), which is what potentials are, both literally and mathematically; they are an accumulation or reservoir of energy. Furthermore, not only did they throw away the gravitational component with the Quatern-ion/Scalar but also postualted that gravitation and electro-magnetism were mutually exclusive, not interdependent. That was the deathblow to subsequent efforts by scientists to realize a functioning Unified Field Theory. Becaus of this one act, electromagnetism was rfrom its original five demensions to only four: X,Y,Z, and Time. The element of G was removed. Because of this deliberate act, twenty-two errors exist today in electromagnetic theory. The very concepts of force, mass, and charge are ill-defined, and the socalled “static” electrical charge has been discovered by Quantum mechanics not to be static at all, but to move rotationally by virtue of the quantum mechanical spin (which has to do with Gravity by the way). Finally, adding insult to injury, the so called “imaginary components” of Maxwell’s original equations as well as the mutilate version of the equations have also been discarded or ignored. With this last error, the door to hyperspacial domains was forever closed, for the present mathematics and physics of electromagnetic theory do not allow for hyperspacial domains (domains out-side of three demensions), superluminal signals (signals that exceed the speed of light or are infinite in speed), and a unified field theory. PLEASE, bear with me further. The edited version of Maxwell’s work, which every physicist and engineer has had to contend with, discards electrogravitation, and avoids the unification of gravitation and electromagnetics. It also prevents the direct engineering of gravitation, space-time, time flow rates, free energy devices, and uantum changes, which is viewd by the altered equations that are vector based as only a statistical change. THe quaternion approach captures the ability to utilize electromagnetics and produce local curvature of spacetime,(something that even Einstein showed possible). Heaviside worte a subset of Maxwell’s equations where this capability is excluded.
Dr. Henry Monteith has independently discovered that Maxwell’s original quaternion theory WAS a unifield field theory. Einsten assumed, because he pnly had access to the “altered” equations, that curving spacetime could only be achieved by the weak gravitational force due to mass, that the local frame would always be a Lorentz frame, which would mean that all operations would be constrained to “conservation laws of physics.” In the 1960’s the Hertz (Hz) replaced Cycles Per Secons. Since then, everyone thinks that all e,ectromagnetic waves are Hertzian. Only the upper portion of the spectrum before Infra-red contains Hertzian waves. ELF and ULF are not; waves in biosystems and natural phenomena are NOT Hertzian in nature.
NOW, you are free to criticize Mr. Goldman’s product and especially his marketing “method”. I know I would as I have, myself, seen the same ole same ole numerous times under different names AND the compiliation of ALL that his “courses” consist are of information that ANYONE CAN FIND on the internet and other places IF they look hard enough. The fact is most people are L.A.Z.Y.!!!
They want a quick fix for everything and lets face it, EVERYONE processes various information to varying degrees, some better than others. And yes I agree with you to a point but being well read and studied myself within and also outside the “conventional educational establishment” that dictates collegiately
what is and isn’t “scientific,” I have found that, like Maxwell’s equations, that IF one expands ones own mind beyond the constraints of “the establishment,”
newer and greater realities can and will unveil themselves IF one removes the blinders and “SEES” the whole 180 degree picture of things. ALready I have found pretty much of WHAT his course consists of and it IS nothing more that various meditative techniques that one can easily find through various sources on and offline. Different people will apply them different ways, granted. HOWEVER, since MOST PEOPLE are profusely stupid (by choice not by nature) anyway, then I praise ANYONE who can creatively put together commonly found information and PRESENT it in a way that plays on that stupidity (or vanity,i.e.,putting a pricetag on everything, for example) and who can get rich off it. Its all about PRESENTATION 85%, 10% logic, and 5% graphics AND since most people WON’T expand their minds beyond “the establishment”, then to the persons who can leap forward and think beyond the average joe and get rich off it, more power to him!!!! BUT, to simply dismiss the “concepts” that one may or may not, OR may not be capable of applying is, in MY opinion far less “scientific” than someone who can leap beyond “logic” and make a profit becaue the fact remains that what one can concieve and believe, (by any means), one can achieve.
Not meaning to sound supercritical of YOU, but I think you really need to first take the one way vision off you mental eyes and see the whole picture and secondly do some honest and true research of your own rather than accepting the “censored” “conventional educational establishment” as without flaw. Neither life nor the human potential is just all black and white. You MUST look into the gray and beyond and once one can do this, a whole new broadness and expansion in thinking awaits you. WHY? Because most people really DON’T think. They let the media, their doctors, their lawyers, their politicians, their pulpit pounding propagandists, do their thinking for them and the more a society can be grdually conditioned (as it has been being) to think independently less and less, by any and all means, the more easily it becomes to later on dump anything desired upon them, without question or resistance. This is is truly sad and truly IS the worst kind of bondage!! Have we not learned ANYTHING since the era of Adolph Hitler? Sometimes I wonder. Just look at the damage G.W. Bush did globally with all his side-stepping of Congress and the democratic process with people all the while simply agreeing with him without question while lulled into a false sense of “security” by bing decieved little by little into giving up more and more of their Constitutional “rights” for “security.” This is the same Idiotic, fanatical, sociopathical behavior that Hitler employed to decieve millions and kill innocent millions more. YET not everyone as taken in by the deceptions and the ones who were not were simply THE ONES WHO THINK and who think beyond “the establishment.” Hitler’s greatest quote was, “How fortunate for the governments that the people DO NOT THINK!!
Yes one should should question and evaluate but again, I praise anyone who can put together what is freely available from other FREE sources and get rich off it. To play on one’s stupidity and LAZINESS as well as their inability to or rather more correctly, steadfastness to NOT THINK, deserve to make someone ELSE rich off information they could have gotten freely and applied.
I am not really criticizing you personally but can only ask that you at least look more openmindedly at things. To criticize Mr. Goldman’s “product” is one thing but to blatantly criticize his product’s contents as purely hogwash remains to be seen because as I said, different people will process information differently. Maybe he needs to put in a discalimer such as, “Individual results may vary.” LOL!!! THE SAME ALSO APPLIES TO YOU!! LOL!!!!!!!!!!!
My reply will be much shorter and VERY much less laced with quotes and references to acientists and people that did work I don’t fully understand, but here you go.
Here’s a quote we can use though: K from Men In Black –
“Fifteen hundred years ago everybody knew the Earth was the center of the universe. Five hundred years ago, everybody knew the Earth was flat, and fifteen minutes ago, you knew that humans were alone on this planet. Imagine what you’ll know tomorrow.”
Understandably people will laugh about using this quote, but it is very enlightening. Peer reviews and empirical data all showed the Earth as the center of the universe, that the Earth was flat and that aliens don’t exist. Two out of three are obviously incorrect.
Althought he actual scientists listed ont he seller’s website most likely don’t share his “Quantum Jumping” beliefs, they do all share the opinion that multiple universes may exist simultaneously. This is something that would have been considered laughable 50 years ago and would have gotten someone burned at the stake 200 years ago.
Do an experiment and gather your own empirical data. Find the most well known and respected neurosurgeons, neurophysicists, biologists and anyone else in similar categories and ask them the following questions:
1) Where are memories stored?
2) How are out of body experiences explained?
3) How powerful is the brain?
4) How much data can the brain store?
5) What are memories?
6) What is telepathy? Is it real?
7) What is telekinesis? Is it real?
While you’re at it you might as well as questions about aliens, God, Jesus and Santa Claus because you will most likely get similar answers such as “I don’t know” and “It’s possible but there’s no proof”.
Now, Just because we don’t KNOW something is real/true, doesn’t mean it isn’t. What we “KNOW” today may be outdated and considered incorrect tomorrow.
Dismissing ideas that are difficult or even impossible to find concrete proof for is not good science. If scientists did this there would be no theories with which to work and experiment. This is not being skeptical either. Skeptical is saying “I don’t believe this is true, but I am willing to look at your idea and mull it over”. You are not doing this, you are dismissing it simply because people smarter than you haven’t signed off on it and it is coming from a salesman.
I think you are doing yourself and your readers a disservice by dismissing the work and ideas of others out of hand while trying to pretend to be a scientific minded individual looking for truth. Why does someone need to peer review something before you will ever look at it?
You state in one of your responses that you won’t even LOOK at something until someone much smarter than you has reviewed it. To me that means you don’t know how to review something on your own.
Further proof lies in the fact that you really aren’t commenting much on the science behind the salesman’s theory (as others have pointed out) but are rather commenting on the lack of proof presented on the website. I see no references to current leaders of thought in metaphysics, neuroscience, etc. You state the salesman mistakenly referred to the product as “Quantum” but then hold that people in quantum physics would not agree with him. Of course they wouldn’t, he isn’t really talking about quantum physics.
Obviously this guy is selling something, we don’t need that pointed out to us. Obviously this guy is not going to be able to “prove” to you that he is mentally projecting himself into alternate dimensions. However, can you prove he isn’t?
Finally, who is this person hurting? Why the witch hunt? Yes he is capitalizing on the average person’s greed and laziness, but who doesn’t do that when looking to make a buck? If he passes along some good information on meditation, deep beathing, self awareness and mental projection practices that will most likely only affect his readers/subscribers in a positive way, who are you to judge him? It is already a wel established fact that meditation and structured breathing practices reduces stress and has many positive affects to overall mental and physical health and happiness.
Selling someone a book that may help teach them to live a happier and healthier life by having conversations with their alternate selves in multiple dimensions isn’t necessarily bad if the lessons are fruitful and functional, even if the premise is complete bunk.
Hi Alex,
The salesman (the American Monk) wants to make by far more money than a buck with his self-help product… and that is ridiculous. Do you know how much it cost? If his program would work he would be already the richest person in the World because other means, and he would share his self-help exercise for free with all of us… because he is altruistic… hey he is the American Monk. He is not only a salesman; he is the creator of the product, the CEO, the President of his company… I wouldn’t mind to buy his product if it would cost $5 or $10 and I would download his mp3 file, but his greed stops me doing that. Actually I sent him an email more than an year ago and I told him that, and he did not have the decency to answer me back.
To get to those so-called parallel Worlds, sitting on your couch, you need an OBE. And to answer your number 2 question “How are out of body experiences explained?”, the OBEs are nothing more than Lucid Dreaming, in other words the conscious mind does not leave the body, and there is nothing paranormal about that. If you would read those messages posted in the last week here you would agree with that. He is not the only veracious salesman who wants to sell this kind of stuff, there are other “monks” too.
Yes Burt is an old man, and yes he deserves a decent life like any of us, just please don’t sell me this crap and tell me that the scientists give him thumbs up and hugs. Now it is too late for him to go to college, study hard and get a decent job that would pay good… he had to do it long ago. It is because the scientists who discovered the Black Holes we use our Mobil phones, and it is because of them we might talk in the future with others from the so called “Parallel Universes”, not because we will use Burt Jump Gate (jumping to a different place like in the Sci Fi movie Stargate ha, ha, ha) sitting on the sofa.
OBEs, Past Life Regressions, Reincarnation etc do not exist; they are just Lucid Dreaming, nothing paranormal, just read the posts at the end of this blog. If you want to pay lots of money for his product then it is your choice, but I am sure you won’t buy it, you just like to argue.
This Blog is one of the best Blogs I ever read, and I am so fortunate I got here; it encourage others to go to school and become an intrinsic part of our great society, and I salute the blog’s owner for his responsibility to do the right thing even if some of us “slap” him. There are no short cuts, jump gates, and Burt is not Merlin, and we do not live in the King’s Arthur time. You seem to be a smart and decent person, and I don’t get your post at all… Is this the way you encourage those less educated people than you? Tell them to go to college and study hard if they want a better life.
To see that you are a humanist/atheist says it all because from what I have seen and heard you are just as much a fundamentalist as any religion and /or High Priestess Witch/or a Scientist theroist who only believes in evolution. You who thinks there truth is the only truth. All of you will kill anyone’s ideas who begs to differ with your ideas!
For anyone who has not had a Near Death Experience, time traveled through meditaion the point is usless. The quantum Tree of Life Matrix with all of its rings of time are only for those who know. They also know that memory is real waking time travel for us all. I do not care if anyone else agrees!
Reality is very one-sided. I also believe 2 + 2 = 4. If you disagree with my “fundamental” positions, I’m happy to hear your evidence. If you don’t have any, don’t waste my time. It’s that simple. You see, science doesn’t have any dogma. Science is in the business of testing hypotheses. It’s a self-correcting system a meritocracy where good ideas thrive and bad ideas unsupported by evidence are discarded like used condoms. That’s why every famous scientist has successfully overturned past conclusions and has had some of their own findings overturned. I’m sorry you feel people should believe in unsupported claims and be as gullible as you under the guise of “open-mindedness” but that’s just a cop-out. I respond to evidence, not excuses. Go back into the Matrix, Neo, and don’t come back here again until you’re interested in actually have your own beliefs challenged and are willing to be educated about things you’re ignorant about.
If you can reduce science to two things, they would be Validity and Reliability. Validity, in simple terms, pertains to the extend to which a claim is true. In other words, does the claim actually allow the prediction that is claimed to allow? The second on, Reliability, pertains to the consistency of the claim. To put it another way, does the claim produce consistent and considerable results over time? These two things are important, since they separate just about all BS from actual scientific knowledge.
Your argument appears to misunderstand (or miss completely) these two crucial concepts. This is important because when people fail to grasp validity and reliability altogether, they may find themselves entertaining the kind of nonsense that Burt Goldman and other con artists spew out to vulnerable people. Not every idea, no matter how appealing it may be to some whose “lives have been changed” should be entertained because there is nothing to verify them. Ideas that cannot be verified with any certainty cannot be reproduced. And if they cannot be reproduced, how are they going to be channeled to help other people?
A growing mistrust of science in general, and a growing mass of uneducated people are, in my opinion, some of the reasons why people gravitate towards this garbage. Can this quantum jumping nonsense help people? Possibly. Has Goldman ever tried to verify this by standardized, repeated measures instead of persuading you by useless and likely fake testimonials? Probably not, and probably doesn’t care. This Goldman guy is just like the Kevin Trudeaus and “Dr.” Bob Barefoots and the Uri Gellers of the world: the greatest scam artists of our era. If you want to throw away your money at this because you believe he’s actually helping you, that is your choice. But don’t think for a second that his ridiculous ideas should be given any serious attention by the rest of us. You must remember that the burden of proof is on the one making the statement, not the one pointing out the flaws.
And also remember, as my parting gift, that the things which people swear are true, swear on their life is true (like life after death) has never been and cannot be tested.
I actually downloaded those tapes on RapidShare when I thought they were about physics.
Then he was saying a load of shit about infinite universes and what-not as if it’s 100% true and not a theory (some even speak of it as a philosophy because there’s no way to ever prove it)..
It did keep me laughing for 2-3 minutes, and than I got mad because my mp3 Player was filled with useless junk instead of real physics material.
People couldn’t “prove” nor “disprove” that Jesus was the Son of God but that didn’t make it any less so as it was later agreed upon by the majority that he was, either. People get so caught up in the bullcrap of having to “prove or disprove” something instead of simply accepting it an getting out of it what they can for whatever level of intelligent mentality and evolution they have. If you continue to always accept “the establishment’s” collegiate definition of what is or isnt so as gospel without thinking and analyzing it yourself, (assuming you have enough intelligence to think outside the brain to do so) then you are doomed like the majority of the rest of world who refuse TO THINK FOR YOURSELF. Again, the truth IS out there but the collegiate dictates of a silently censored educational system that attempts to define and mandate what is or is not
continues to remain and enslave those who refuse or who are incapable of thinking for themselves.
Maybe you should have been more specific in your searches if you wanted material on physics. Physics IS a broad complicated science anyway, several facets of which REMAIN suppressed by the collegiate scientific establishment to keep people believing falsehoods within it rather than truly expanding their minds beyond it. Neither life nor logic is all just black and white and simply because we can’t “prove” nor “disprove” something doesn’t make it any less a reality beyond someone who can concieve and believe in something and achieve with and beyond it.
You seem to not grasp the concept of burden of proof. Extraordinary claims REQUIRE extraordinary evidence. What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence. That goes for magic quantum jumping, Jesus, Zeus, Santa Claus, The Easter Bunny, and whatever other crazy, childish beliefs you choose to subscribe to.
It’s amazing how the only people who ever seem to think standards of evidence are a bad thing are those who pushing beliefs that don’t satisfy those standards.
thedefiantofsuppression, if you don’t give me all your money I will curse you with bad luck for the rest of your life. Don’t get caught up in the bullcrap of having to “prove or disprove” it. Simply acceptd it an get out of it what you can.
All I ask–indeed all I’ve EVER asked–was for someone to give me a good reason to believe their claims. If maverick that you are, you can’t even give a good reason why YOU believe these claims, why do you expect anyone else to believe them.
Beware the curse. It will follow you to Never Never Land.
Now Now people play nice. Actually I got a good laugh out of reading the tiff these two were having. It was so funny how they kept trying to battle each other with $5, $10 then it got ugly when they started used $20 words. If you believe you can jump through dimensions then jump. If you feel that it’s a bunch of pitty poo, then believe that. The truth shall set us all free.
Rain, that’s all well and good except for one problem. People like the anonymous commenter right above you are demonstrably harmed by such claims. Reality is not subjective. Truth and falsehood are often mutually exclusive, not two equally valid points of view.
Please forgive the invocation of Godwin’s Law, bit it seems apt in this situation (though obviously an exaggeration). One could just as easily argue that if the Nazis believe the Jews should be exterminated, then they should continue to believe that and if you feel that it’s a bunch of pitty poo, then believe that, for the truth shall set us all free.
The problem with this line of argument should be obvious. When a particular belief is demonstrably harmful to society, it needs to be challenged. To do otherwise and leave it all up to fate to hopefully give us special access to the objective truth somewhere down the line is naive. If history tells us anything it’s that the truth doesn’t just suddenly reveal itself for no reason but is determined by the hard work of people willing to test and challenge beliefs.
As Winston Churchill once put it, “Truth is incontrovertible, malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it, but in the end there IT remains.” Or as they said on “The X-files,” “The truth is out there!”
If there is one thing that i understand in life, it is quantum jumping. I have known how to do it since i was 14. I am now 17. I known that it is very dangerous and can mess with your mind. I try mot to tell anyone about my ability. yes it can get you things and make you feel more confedant, but its not right to use it to show of. you use it yet want you want……but you will always want more. I have lost many things because of this and i just want to tell you to be carefull. all if you. I wish you all happiness and i do want you to use quantum jumping but please just dint do anything stupid.
Have you considered the possibility that the cause/effect relation is going the other way, that your mind was already messed up and that that’s what precipitated the “quantum jumping”?
If you can indeed “quantum jump”, I recommend you apply for the James Randi Educational Foundation’s Million Dollar Challenge. You can make an easy million dollars by simply doing what you say you can already do. How sweet is that? And if you’re allergic to money, just think of all the starving kids that million dollars could feed. Plus if you can scientifically prove quantum jumping is a real phenomena, then you’re guaranteed a place in the history books and will have altered human understanding of how the entire universe works. You just have to prove to the scientific community that this is real.
Well,mjr256 this article is an interesting read. I just finished listening to 6 CD’s of the 7 CD QJ course. And what I think about this product is that it gives you a set of tools on how to use our minds on the unnecessary problems that we face in our everyday life.
And in my opinion I don’t care about the so called “scientific community” proving this Quantum jumping as real or not. It is not necessary. Why do you need to prove it to be real as long it gives you results?
Burt Goldman says in the program that he himself does not believe in quantum jumping but he uses it anyway and he gets the result he need.
Let me share my experience with quantum jumping. (No, its not some breakthrough goal that I achieved using the program as I listened to program only once)
He gives the listener the instructions on how to jump to parallel universe and talk with his other self or “Doppelgänger” on how to solve the problem the listener has. I did just as instructed and on the 4 th quantum jump I did with the program that self told me that my mother is going to argue with me when I browse on my computer. And after I finished the exercise, I went to my room and sat next to my PC. It exactly happened as that “self”told me.
Now, I agree that this is a lame example but, come on,I exactly predicted what will happen in future(which I never did it before). I will post more here if i get real results from this program.
So the point of all this: as long as you believe quantum jumping works and work on your life with that belief,and of course taking action from the information you receive from it, then it can change your life.
will you please teach me?
Didn’t even bother replying to this guy Skep any further…At least not where the thread was left.
Friend you’ve got far too much time on your hands and as much as I enjoy intellectual ping-pong, there are more fruitful pursuits available.
You’re too rigid and set in your viewpoint to allow for a mutually beneficial and educating discussion.
I got access to the program, didn’t pay squat…Gave it a go and had some interesting experiences with it.
I’ve got some entrepreneurial ventures on the backburner…I engaged a “self” who has already launched those ideas successfully. The information I got was novel and both inspired me and gave me fresh perspectives.
It is irrelevant as to whether or not I actually contacted a parallel self, or was just talking to a fictional image of my mind’s creation.
The programs creator even mentions that in the series…
Point is, I got results and had a great time exploring those mind-states. I didn’t even get more than a few steps into the ‘program’ – I’m looking forward to completing it.
Forget the site and the loser’s attempt at cashing in on this information…The info is something people can find out there for free- of course they’re going to look silly selling it.
It’s the core info that is valuable, and people who want it, will get it, at no cost. Why don’t you criticize the IDEAS, instead of the guy’s shitty and pitiful attempt at sales??
“It is irrelevant as to whether or not I actually contacted a parallel self, or was just talking to a fictional image of my mind’s creation.”
But that’s what they’re selling! That’s like a car dealership selling cars, which they tell you work when they don’t and then concluding that it’s okay because they sold you on the feeling of what it might be like if the cars did drive. Sorry, but that’s fraud. They either work as advertised or they don’t. If they don’t, then that is false advertising and opens them up to possible litigation.
The point IS NOT whether you get results but rather whether the product does what it claims to do. A placebo might make you feel better but if it’s not the thing that actually cured what ails ya, you’re being ripped off. Now maybe you’re fine with being ripped off but most other people (like the anonymous person who commented above) aren’t. And even if everyone was perfectly fine with being willfully ignorant of being taken advantage of, it would still be more objectionable.
If all you’re interested in is believing what is comforting to you, then go nuts. But I happen to be far more interested in what is true, regardless of whether it brings me comfort or not. And I’m fairly certain that I DID criticize both the “IDEAS” as well as the fraudulent advertising.
and by the way Jay,appreciate your responses very much! I would write exactly the same thing. This Burt’s cashing trip is really pathetic.I thought at his age and his experience he would have accummulated enough money to be able to gift the world for free with his little big secrets. This “chasing of the buck” of him is really miserable…
I swear to God,I would never abuse in such way the knowlege I have been given access to,once I get into his position…
hello im a 13 year old, who stumbled across burts site, theres one thing i dont get, even if, i mean a big if that his techniques is true and you can visit parallell universe, burt states it can increase your painting,musical,writing talents just by talking to another version of yourself but if it was true these other versions would have spent years if not there whole life developing these skills so how can you take there skills just by talking to them the only way you could is if you did the same as them through hard work and this would defeat the point of going to another world to increase your wealth through new talents and skills
All excellent questions. I think quantum jumping is a lot like the film, District 9. The more you shut off your brain and ignore giant plot holes, the more you’ll get out of it.
Good points, Dave. Here’s another: what if your alternate self is actually worse than you are? Seems to me that the chances are 50/50 that the other you ISN’T better, smarter, more artistic, or whatever.
Exactly. If the parallel versions of “me” are infinite, then that means I am a serial killer somewhere among all of those parallel universes. I really don’t want to be running into any of the criminal, undesirable versions of me accidentally, even if it’s just somewhere deep in the recesses of my own subconscious.
Actually, this can be done quite simply and exactly as Burt states. Your other selves can pass along years of wisdom with just a belief technique that you practice. Consider this: A freestyle skiing/biking/skating (or what have you) champion spends a lot of time developing a new technique which helps them win the championship. Others, merely by watching the champ can imitate the technique because they believe that they can. I learned music, dancing, cooking, photography, writing, painting and other skills quickly and easily with no other explanation. Have you noticed how easily a master can make his craft look? It really is that easy when your hands/feet/etc. have the right guidance from within whether you have developed the skill from scratch (the hard way) or have visualized yourself as the master (easy, quick way). The easy way to get somewhere is always the best way. In other words, the less resistance you encounter along the way, the closer you are to the path you want to be on. In other words, if you have to fight or struggle to get what you want, you’ll get there if you don’t quit but it could take lots of time and effort. An easier method to get there or get much more in less time is what you are looking for. Go with the flow of life…
If this is indeed possible as you claim, please submit research including the empirical evidence this is so to reputable, peer-reviewed quantum physics journals so they can confirm it and contact the Nobel committee to find out where to pick up the Nobel Prize.
If you believe that from Nothing it is possible for the Universe to evolve into the state it is right now…it means that you are a foul, otherwise it means that you believe that there is a God. You said “…this is another in a long line of pseudoscientific nonsese being sold to the public…”? Well, Einstein said that the speed of light is the greatest speed in the Universe…but we found out that it is not! Einstein lied to us just to impress the beautiful women because he was a womanizer? So tell me if this is science when geniuses tell us that the Big Bang origins are a dimensionless dot with an infinite mass (dimensionless dot means Nothing). What a F… of science is that? I am choosing Quantum Jumping over the Dimensionless Dot with an Infinite Mass! Deep into your heart you know that I am right… Anyway it is a New Age philosophy and it is OK.
(I am not related to the author of Quantum Jumping)
I don’t believe that “from Nothing” it is possible for the Universe to evolve into the state it is right now, so I have to agree with you that such a belief would be every bit as foolish as believing that everything came from some infinitely complex deity that came from Nothing. And I disagree with you that the two options you mention are the only options available. For instance, the the Theory of Evolution offers a third option, and I’m sure I could sit here all day conjuring up more alternatives. So if all you can think of is two options that require magical explanations then I think you suffer from a failure of imagination and have never really done any research on the subject.
Further, I find your Einstein allusion a non-sequitur, and therefore irrelevant to the discussion. While I’ve yet to see demonstrable evidence that Einstein was wrong on this point, he certainly has been wrong about other things. Everyone’s been wrong about some things. So what? Establishing that someone has been wrong at least once in their life is not sufficient evidence to prove they or anyone else has been wrong on an unrelated topic. Gandhi slept with 2 naked 16-year-old girls almost every night instead of his wife. That doesn’t mean he was wrong about civil disobedience. Martin Luther King may have plagiarized some of his early writings. That doesn’t mean he was wrong about civil rights.
But what this all comes down to is ignorance about what science is and how it works. Science isn’t an authority that just makes decrees. It’s a process of determining how our universe works based on observation, experimentation, and rigorous testing. It’s a meritocracy where only good ideas survive while bad ideas get discarded like used condoms.
Now I don’t think you have any understanding how what quantum singularity is or have done any research in quantum physics. If you did, you wouldn’t refer to a quantum singularity as a “dimentionless dot” and you’d understand that the Big Bang Theory isn’t just some crazy idea that some scientists thought up one night at the bar but is fully scientifically proven fact.
And lastly, “Quantum Jumping” is not even posited as an alternative to the Big Bang, so they’re not necessarily mutually exclusive ideas. But if you’re happy believing in nonsense and refusing to study reality, have fun.
My theory of Evolution is different than those two, I believe in One Super Dimension of Space that is projected on its Sub-Dimensions. That being said, it is impossible for our scientists to visualize a hyper dimensional space, though they imagined the tesseract and wrote its equation. I mean if you would live in a Flat World you might imagine the height dimension and come with the volume equation, and maybe you would think about the miracle of jumping and seeing more than the tip of your nose, though that would be the only thing you would understand about our 4 dimensional Universe. Think about a blind man who perceive only 4 senses, try to explain him the World he is living in, do you really think he would understand you…?
I believe that the Universe just “appeared” stationary to dimensions bigger than the observable Universe at this very moment, then it started to inflate itself. I do not believe in that kind of Big Bang that exploded from an infinitesimal dot like a grenade would explode…it does not make sense
Quantum Jumping is a great Self-Help book written by an octogenarian. If he makes money with his CD’s then I ma happy for him, it means that he really contacted his “successful twin” from a different parallel Universe and he got a great advice in becoming rich. We live in a capitalistic society not a Star Trek society so if you want to have a car you must buy it, if you want to buy a book to enlighten yourself…you pay money. I do not concern myself with whether I should or should not have the anger or resentment because the author of the Quantum Jumping made lots of money with his CD’s. Did you ever have an genuine OBE? No, you never had it because if you would have one you wouldn’t laugh your ass off about this Self-Help CD “Quantum Jumping”. His CD’s are not about saving the unfortunate children in the world, his CDs are about improving ones life. If the author wants to help the World with his millions after he becomes very rich selling his CDs then that would be his choice.
Mjr256, why are you bias and deleted my message? I tell you what, if you take a pencil right now and write down, without checking the books, the 2500 years old Pythagorean theorema demonstration then I will give you credit…for your Quantum thoughts… otherwise get off the Web, and let the people expend their minds and dreams, because without dreaming we all become Super Robots! Have the decency and post this message…and the other one, maybe the 13 year old boy who posted above would learn to expend his beautiful mind and becaome better than you are! I changed my mind, you don’t need to write down the demonstration of the Pythagorean theorema, just write down the final equation!
Quantum Jumping has a New Age approach that is based on meditation, it is not based on math equations. I bet that you laughed your ass off reading about Jesus walking on water, unless you believe that He perceived more than 4 dimensions and more than 5 senses therefore He was able to do those things.
I tell you this, long before the TV sets where invented my wife’s grandma said listing to the radio (somewhere in Transylvania) … “you know it would be great if we could see those people talking and singing inside of this box”, and everybody laughed their asses off saying that she was crazy!
I haven’t deleted any messages from you. WordPress requires comments be confirmed and I’m not sitting at a computer 24-hours a day.
And if you think quantum jumping has anything to do with quantum theory, then I don’t really care what you think of my “quantum thoughts.”
heh…mjr,
if you’re gonna spend life only accepting true what has been studied by scientists and proven as “fact”, then you will lead a very boring life…
if you’re gonna spend life only accepting true what has been studied by scientists and proven as “fact”, then you will lead a very boring life…
if that’s your way of studying reality, then what good is all of your 1st-hand, subjective life experience? oops, can’t completely verify it, what you’ve learned cannot be proven as true…tisk tisk if you assimilate this experience into a way of behaving, it hasn’t been verified…
there is an endless world of information to explore and enrich your mind with when you start venturing on your own two feet.
psychedelics, for ex. have been used for tens of thousands of years by just about every human culture as a means for contacting the spiritual realm and higher-dimensional deities…from cave-stone-art depictions of etheric-animal-human-hybrids to modern-day usage of peyote and ayahuasca, there is an ineffable world out there whose implications, if real, completely crap on anything science is studying as of now.
The importance of those realms is greater than anything in mainstream science, but boo-hoo it’s based on a subjective experience which cannot be “properly” verified, and hell if you’ll ever get through the red tape to get a proper research grant.
your skeptical mind is predictable and uninteresting, and it’s very obvious you don’t have any imagination or thoughts outside your ridid reality-box…
what a yawn getting into debates here, you have too much time on your hands and can write “books-on-nothing” all day long…quite well, may I add…
Speculation is all well and good but that’s not a scientific theory, which requires evidence supporting it. Now contrary to popular belief The Big Bang is just a name and no actual explosion is described in the theory. Quantum Jumping has no scientific validity and yet is dishonestly sold as though it were scientific. This constitutes as nothing short of fraud.
Further, I don’t appreciate your making false assumptions about me. I have indeed had many OBEs, dozens in fact. And sorry to spoil to mystery for you but they’re just lucid dreams. That’s it. No metaphysical explanations required. And yes, I’m still laughing my ass off about “Quantum Jumping.”
I once thought about hosting a blog like this one where I could share viewpoints about pseudoscientific claims, but after having contributed to this one and looking at all subsequent posts now I know why I will never do it.
It must suck to have to constantly respond to some of the stupidest and most ridiculous ideas that have ever been conceived by the human mind. When it is not someone regurgitating a pathetic defense for the existence of some paranormal dimension, it is someone else who claiming some evidence of question validity, which the blogger demands it be accepted on its own merits while at the same time asserting that science “cannot prove everything”. You can’t get a decent discussion going, not even to generate some new ideas. It seems to be the same crap over and over again. Doesn’t that get really boring?
No amount of evidence, no matter how strongly rational, can ever hope to persuade a strongly irrational person. I believe the problem stems from the rampant illiteracy that people in modern times have, especially in the United States. For a people who greatly distrust science, they sure have no problem reaping the benefits of the latest scientific discoveries.
In my opinion, the problem of the distrust in the scientific method most likely comes from the lack of education. So if we are to remedy this, we need to get out there and educate the public. What do you think?
Even Hawking said that there is a fine line between science and religion. Burt just crossed that line with his Self Help CDs allowing many of us to go deeper in the mind of God via metaphysics.
Quantum Jumping has its “twin”, Quantum Leap that was a TV series I think in early 90’s, and at the end of each show the guy always ended up in the body of a different person experiencing that person’s life. English is my second language still I believe that “Jump” and “Leap” means the same thing! If in the non-Euclidean geometry of Lobachevsky 1+1 = 3 of course using his postulates… and no one brings him in court for that, then everything is possible in our World and beyond, well quantum mechanics is based on postulates too, isn’t it?. So why you wonder about Burt’s parallel Universes populated with our more successful twins? Leave the octogenarian guy and his work alone, he did and continue to do good. If you said that you are into metaphysics and had OBE’s, and hey you know about Singularity too, then you should admire Burt’s work and courage. And talking about what you said about Gandhi and Einstein, Einstein was more than a womanizer; although Einstein did not invent the atomic bomb and did not participate in the Manhattan Project, his theories laid the foundation for it and Einstein urged FDR to build it (and stop here please, don’t bring excuses for dropping them over innocent people in Japan). I choose Quantum Jumping created by a peaceful octogenarian guy over the Theory of Relativity that soon will be obsolete, anyhow!
We live in a capitalistic system not in a Star Trek system, so if we need a car we must buy it, if we want to enlighten ourselves we have to buy books, CDs etc. Quantum Jumping helps an individual, not a group, to improve his life. To paraphrase someone who wrote about children on your blog, if Burt will get millions of dollars selling his CD’s and he will decide to help all the unfortunate children in the hospitals with that money then it will be his choice, not yours, mine or anybody else.
Yes, that line is marked by evidence. Science demands evidence; religion has no such standard. If Burt can provide empirical evidence for his claims in a carefully controlled study that passes the peer review process and gets published in a reputable science journal, I’ll accept his claims as science. Otherwise, he’s just another quack selling pseudoscience. If your idea of good science is referencing Quantum Leap, consider me unimpressed by your standards. But maybe you can find my less skeptic twin in another world. But until then, it’s the fact that I do understand how science works that makes me find Bert’s whole claim utterly, utterly preposterous on every possible level. Further, ad hominem attacks on people’s characters are no substitute for rational argument and evidence.
Quantum Leap was a SF series, why you put words in my mouth? I never said it is a good science. Maybe the title inspired Burt, that’s all I said. Quantum Jumping is a New Age Self Help product that is based on meditation, self hypnosis and it is intended to improve people’s lives not to improve their knowledge about physics or math, for that someone needs to go to college. You are an unhappy person, you should buy Quantum Jumping and relax don’t be too hard on yourself. And yes in an infinite Universe everything is posible including what Burt said, and I am sure that Stephen Hawking, Michio Kaku and Neil Turok agree uopon that because they are very smart and intelligent, it seems that you do not understand the concept of Infinite. I bet that Burt used to have lunch with all of them.
I hope that Burt comes with a new set of CDs to enlighen us with his goodness, he is so much deserving!
Yes, I know what Quantum Leap was. If anything, referencing it only further illustrates how idiotic Quantum Jumping is because it’s got no more real science to it as a bad sci-fi TV. Maybe he should have called it Sliders while he was at it. Recognizing that there’s no actual science applied and that he’s presented no real evidence that can’t be incredibly easily explained by mundane phenomena does not make me an unhappy person. On the contrary, I’m quite happy. I know it comes to a shock to your ego but not everyone who disagrees with you is an unhappy person. But if as you claim, “everything is possible” then I suggest a test of that hypothesis. Find a 30-story window and hop out. My hopothesis is that you’ll go splat but who knows? Everything is possible, right?
And no, as I’ve said above, none of those scientists agree with Bert’s claims. Not even close. But keep drinking that Kool-Aid.
Nice “Sliders” reference. I think the correlation between Quantum Jumping and “Quantum Leap” is cheesy as well. Though I actually liked “Quantum Leap,” Scott Bakula, and Dean Stockwell. It was good fiction, but really, it was fiction.
“Quantum Jumping is a New Age Self Help product that is based on meditation, self hypnosis and it is intended to improve people’s lives”
Right about that part Octavian, although you seem far too gung ho about this Burt character and his product.
Nothing Burt says is original, he just takes ideas and methods from his Silva pals and repackages it to sell. People shouldn’t buy it, they should pirate it – the information (he steals) is already freely available out there anyways. Ol’ Burt just snatches it up, twists in some vague scientist references and tries to sell it to the impressionable and undiscerning.
Quantum Jumping is a fun and interesting mind-experiment to engage in and it produces results. It’s irrelevant whether or not the experience in your mind is real or not. If Burt didn’t stamp his face and signature on the concepts, barring them behind dollar signs, many more people would be trying it and posting their results for all to scrutinize.
You are the host and you do what ever you want with your blog, you can frame your messages and hang them on your living room walls if you want, though you should change first the misspelled author’s name, it is Burt not Bert, like you wrote it in your previous message. English is my second language…what’s your excuse, unless you “happily” showed your disrespect for an octogenarian? I guess we both walk on a different side of the street. I have nothing to add to your topic! Octavian
If you’re referring to my post, i’m not the author of this article or page. mjr256 is.
English is my third-language, actually. I always thought it to be my best.
Heh, wagging your finger because I spelt Bert as Burt 🙂 Both spellings sound the same, but I will try not to confuse you next time.
Anyways, I was offering observations and thoughts on Burt and his schemes, not you. All I said was you seem to be very enthusiastic about him. I don’t even know what an octogenarian is.
I walk in the middle of the street and am open to consider any idea. Follow this entire thread and you’ll see I say nothing but good things about the concept of Quantum Jumping. Ol’ Sneaky Burt on the other hand…
Jay,
Burt gave away great stuff for free, watch and listen, there are things you never heard before and you can use them for your better good:
http://blog.theamericanmonk.com/your-way-to-wealth-and-prosperity-part-3
As I said before we live in a capitalistic society not in a Star Trek one, so if we want to have things we must buy them, if we want to enlighten ourselves we have to buy books, CD’s etc. I guess his product, like any other products, cost money to be manufactured. I am not sure why he didn’t lower the price, and anyhow it is not my problem. I am not that kind of guy who believes that the monks, or priests, or etc. are not allowed to be rich or married, or heaving fun. Instead of buying many books or different CDs, I guess it is more convenient to buy one CD collection with all those goodies. I like the guy and his personality and hopefully he will live longer than George Burns and enjoy the rest of his life.
I have nothing against the guy personally. He seems to have a pleasing personality and the organizations he is associated with are rooted in the occult and are tapped into some powerful knowledge.
But if you have beliefs on how society should be, then you should act out and make that change happen. Just because we live in a capitalist society doesn’t mean we are confined to it. There is an underground of free information available to any seeker that puts in a shred of effort. Ol’ Berts files don’t escape that reality, they are available free online.
I’m not justifying any particular action, only saying one should think for oneself. Star Trek had a well-established underground market too, it’s not that simple of a distinction.
I could probably go into my library and return with a list of all the sources Bert ripped his ideas off from…They are not original. Look, I’ve been in the situation where I’ve produced intellectual work and have faced the question of Giving or Selling. Giving being the right choice of the heart, selling being the only way to stay afloat in this capitalistic system…It’s a hard choice, but man, Bert just regurgitates on and on…
If he really had faith in the Law of Attraction and the Infinite & bountiful universe, then he would give his information away for free, and the positive impact it would have on society and individuals would return to him many times over.
Instead his alternative-self told him to package the information and sell it to suckers, and here we are. The joys of capitalism.
I know a girl who decided one day she needed solitude. She started by giving away all of her possessions. Soon later she gets an unexpected call- an old client of hers, asking if she could house sit long-term for a remote residence.
Takes the opportunity, goes there for self-relfection, writes a book, etc.
Started with a leap of faith and focus on final outcome, and she got it.
Had good intentions and received from the universe what she had asked for.
I’m sorry but I don’t see good intentions on Bert’s part. I just see him peddling information which should be available freely to everybody. Sheesh…a few free audio clips does not make up for him charging hundreds of dollars for studio-recorded metaphysical regurgitation and engaging in deceitful marketing strategies.
Even ignoring the underground availability of his files, you could just as easily piece together your own Quantum Jumping program from FREE information on public websites…
I’ve spent many thousands on amazon- big orders regularly, buying books and such.
Quantum Jumping just isn’t worth the price tag- it’s ridiculously inflated.
If you really are an octagenarian, then I wouldn’t really expect your information-processing abilities to be that high, or for you to have a real-grasp of what’s available out there in the intellectual arena. Kudos for checking your mail and forwarding-on funny SlideShows, etc, but for anyone whose been around the block and assimilated massive quantities of data, Burt is a joke and his information half-rate.
Jay, we live a time when the Theory of Relativity does not help us in any way, though the other Einstein’s discovery, the Einstein Szilard refrigerator that avoids the need for freons would improve our lives, “the theory” of Quantum Jumping definitely help us in this very moment because it allows God to expand in our mind (well, the American Monk spent all his life praying, meditating so it is his turn to experience the “physical” life to its fullest, let him have more than enough to have a decent life… I give him a thumb up. Yes there are thousands of Self Help books, CDs, DVDs out there, some work and others don’t, and these CDs might work for many. There are many people who spend thousands of dollars for the lottery tickets hoping they’ll make it big on the expense of others (which is good because most of their money go anyway to our schools), so spending some bucks for metaphysical books, DVDs or CDs…it is OK.
mjr256 walks on the other side of the street, I see that you are somewhere in the middle which is good because you are closer to him and you might give him a hand and pull him here, on this side and that would be the right way to do it!
Jay, I was not referring to your post because I did not read your message at that time, it was mjr256 … and some people are ashamed of the content of their posts so they use an alpha (and even that in a lower case) numeric name instead of a real one…such a shame!
I don’t know about the Quantum jumping program or audio CD’s yet.
Having seen the YouTube uploads on Burt Goldman’s work, it seems he is one of the few people on earth who has either comprehended or put to use an ancient knowledge on the nature of consciousness.
The multidimensional nature of creation & our perception of said phenomenon through our faculty of consciousness is over 10,000 years old as oratory knowledge. It was recorded over 6,000 years ago in the Vedic scriptures.
Our simultaneous selves exist as potential manifestations & the technique described by Burt is also found in the work by Jane Roberts in the “Seth” books.
However one must read quite a bit of the “Seth” material & comprehend the information from Seth before understanding what Burt is getting at.
So in a sense, his approach is brilliant because it is the best practical & easily comprehensible technique available to the logical thinkers.
If you are an emotional “inward reflecting” personality this stuff is very easy to assimilate without confusion or contradiction.
Simply put, if you have to arrive at everything you believe in through analysis, you just won’t be able to arrive at an analytical position of comprehension.
On the other hand I you are capable of trying new things without pre-judgment just to discover if it is possible you will be pleasantly surprised by how much is beyond the comprehension of a scientific mind.
Ultimately the thing you know as your mind and the thing you know as reality is the same thing. Only the perception & the nature of the data is different.
Through your five senses you interpret the field of information around you as reality. Through your mind you interpret the same field of information as consciousness. Except in consciousness you have access to the multidimensional nature of this field of information.
If you want to discover this truth, instead of wasting time with argument and analysis, start doing meditation.
“Ancient knowledge”? You mean superstitions people made up in ancient times to explain the universe back when we didn’t know any better and didn’t have science?
It always amazes me that so many people are impressed by the pre-scientific beliefs because they’re old. If “ancient knowledge” is so wonderful maybe you should try trepanning some time. Throw out that new automobile and we can put you in a nice horseless carriage today for a low, low price, just like the ancients would have used. The ancients died at 30, clubbed their mates, and didn’t have internet. If they’re your choice of intellectual authorities, have fun. I’ll be in the 21st century. Say hi to Vishnu for me.
In my mind Mysticism + Love + Science = Evolution, therefore Mysticism and Love without Science would not give us the comfort we live to day, and yes I want to keep my awesome car…and also my New Age and religious books! Science without Mysticism brings the Mankind to DISASTER, look what happened to the Soviet Union and its Super-Science, did we already forget? For one thing they were the first who “conquered” the cosmos with their Sputnik. It is a bad omen to “Imagine there’s no Heaven, it’s easy if you try… and no religion too”, it is a bad omen to imagine there is no God, it is a bad omen to laugh about the “ancient knowledge”.
You’ve already demonstrated that you don’t even understand the most basic principles of Evolution and have based all of your conclusions about it on the fictions told to you by its ideological opponents. The Theory of Evolution is based entirely on mountains of physical evidence and deductive reasoning, same as every other scientific theory. No appeals to magic, mysticism, or “love” required.
“Science without Mysticism brings the Mankind to DISASTER. ook what happened to the Soviet Union and its Super-Science, did we already forget?”
There was nothing scientific about the Soviet Union’s policies. This is not a legitimate example of “science without mysticism,” just a straw man argument. No one ever died because people were being too reasonable. However, the same cannot be said of those who have been utterly convinced they were acting on behalf of an all-mighty god.
Mjr256 (when I type your name is like I talk to a robot), your understanding of the basic principles of Evolution are wrong, like I said before you are one of those who believe that it is possible for the Universe to evolve from Nothing into Something. Why did you spell “Evolution” with the capital letter and “god” in the lower case, is this the way you learned it in an elementary school? Well, in this case there is nothing else I can add!
Octavian, your understanding of the basic principles of Evolution are wrong. You’ve been horribly misled by ideologues who haven’t a clue what the theory is. Evolution DOES NOT claim, nor do I or any biologist believe, the Universe evolved from Nothing into Something. You can’t even use the word “evolve” right. Evolution is a process that necessitates reproduction and has nothing whatsoever to do with the creation of the universe, the creation of the planet Earth, or even the creation of life. Evolution simply describes the process on which new species derive from other species through reproduction, variation, and natural selection. The only part of that process that has anything to do with chance at all is in specific mutations. And I doubt even that is actually random. You can’t conflate Big Bang Theory and Abiogenesis with Evolution. They’re entirely separate things. I suggest you familiarize yourself with all three, lest you continue to go through life making a fool out of yourself in conversations about science.
Furthermore, the vast majority of those who accept evolution are theists of one kind or another. Even the Catholic Church has no problem at all accepting the facts of evolution. Do Catholics believe the Universe evolved from Nothing into Something? Of course they don’t. Well, at least no more than every theist does because let’s face it. Ultimately, that is the logical conclusion to every religion that suggests the universe must have been created by a magical deity that required no explanation at all. In doing so, they posit something infinitely more complex than the very thing they’re trying to explain and then just throw up their hands and attribute it to magic. For if you can just say “God” always existed, why not just save a step while you’re at it and conclude that maybe the universe just always existed. Now that’s not my actual position but its one that’s at least more likely than a magical genie in the sky just said that the world existed and then it did.
And the reason we capitalize Evolution is because it is the proper name to a specific theory. We also capitalize Big Bang Theory and the Second Law of Thermodynamics. Creationists even try to capitalize their “Theory of Intelligent Design” aka The Theory of Stuff Magically Poofing into Existence. Proper names get capitalized. This too is taught in elementary schools around the world.
http://www.dangeroustalk.net/a-team/evolution
http://www.dangeroustalk.net/a-team/Big_Bang
http://www.dangeroustalk.net/a-team/Beginnings
http://www.dangeroustalk.net/a-team/Intelligent_Design
Mjr256 – when you said “Evolution is a process that necessitates reproduction”, I am sure that you were referring to Biology only, to the genetic composition of a population during successive generations…” , Oh well, as we all learned in the 5th grade that’s just a small, small part of the whole. Evolution is a gradual process in which something changes into different more complex or better form and it is not only a process that necessitates reproduction. It is accepted by the scientists that the Universe had a beginning and according to them the Cosmic Microwave Background Radiation is the proof that the Universe had indeed a Beginning, and it evolved since then. In the above context, since the beginning of the Universe our Sun is the 3rd generations of stars, and in the first 2 generations of stars the Universe was less “evolved”, it was not as complex as it is now, and it did not have enough chemical elements that would allow the multitude of combinations to form the life on Earth for instance, and we speculate on other planets as well. And that said we are made of Stars…
Because the Universe had indeed a beginning my question for you is who created it? I tell you who: GOD. If you are shy to say GOD in English because English is your 2nd or 3rd language then say it in your native language, or in Russian “BOZHE”, or in Hebrew “JEHOVA”, or in Italian “DIO”, or “DUMNEZEU”, or Allah … etc, etc. And by the way your statement “No one ever died because people were being too reasonable. However, the same cannot be said of those who have been utterly convinced they were acting on behalf of an all-mighty god” it is out of context, those people are EXTREMISTS that write God with capital “G” and Evolution with “e” in the lower case; You, and others like you, are extremists too because you write God with “g” in the lower case and Evolution with capital E. Both of you are dangerous people, but luckily there are not too many of you out there, and on the other hand the rest of us, we the billions, write God and Evolution the right way. And by the way I lived more than 30 years in the athestic communistic society and you are wrong in everything you said in your previous message.
You don’t need to reply to this message unless you really know for sure that other than God created the Universe (knowing that the Universe has a Beginning and that every Beginning has a cause, and also knowing that God does not resemble “God” from the Sistine Chapel – the Creation of Adam…) Hawking can’t explain it, and he says that there is a fine line between science and releigion, and he is awesome saying that. Are you smarter than Hawking? Hey, don’t be to hard on yourself!
“No appeals to magic, mysticism, or ‘love’ required” you said? You do not know the meaning of those words, maybe if you change your name to a human one…you might change yourself constructivly and you’ll understand more. You still didn’t answer my question and tell me the Pythagorean equation, you were supposed to learn it in the 4th grade, I guess you were busy learning God in the lower case then…
“Mjr256 – when you said “Evolution is a process that necessitates reproduction”, I am sure that you were referring to Biology only, to the genetic composition of a population during successive generations…” , Oh well, as we all learned in the 5th grade that’s just a small, small part of the whole. Evolution is a gradual process in which something changes into different more complex or better form and it is not only a process that necessitates reproduction.”
I beg to differ. Biological Evolution does necessitate some form of reproduction. If you think otherwise, please cite an example.
“It is accepted by the scientists that the Universe had a beginning and according to them the Cosmic Microwave Background Radiation is the proof that the Universe had indeed a Beginning, and it evolved since then.”
Again, you’re conflating different theories. The Theory of Evolution has nothing to do with cosmology outside of metaphor. Now the universe did indeed have a beginning 13.7 billion years ago. Now you can choose to call the formation of galaxies, etc “evolution” if you want but again, that has nothing to do with the Theory of Evolution.
“In the above context, since the beginning of the Universe our Sun is the 3rd generations of stars, and in the first 2 generations of stars the Universe was less “evolved”, it was not as complex as it is now, and it did not have enough chemical elements that would allow the multitude of combinations to form the life on Earth for instance, and we speculate on other planets as well. And that said we are made of Stars…”
Now I don’t understand the point you’re trying to make with “generations of stars” or why this is relevant to the discussion. I also don’t know you mean by “less evolved.” You seem to be suggesting this relates to complexity but Evolution (if I accept the metaphor) doesn’t have anything to do with complexity.
“it was not as complex as it is now, and it did not have enough chemical elements that would allow the multitude of combinations to form the life on Earth for instance, and we speculate on other planets as well. And that said we are made of Stars…”
What? Where are you pulling your information from? All the necessary elements have been accounted for.
“Because the Universe had indeed a beginning my question for you is who created it?”
Your question presupposes the universe was created by a “who.” First you have to prove it was a “who.” Now if you were to ask the right question, “WHAT created the universe,” that question has been definitively answered, The Big Bang. If you’d like to know what led to that, well that requires further research. But for all intents and purposes, it’s like asking what’s north of the North Pole.
“I tell you who: GOD. If you are shy to say GOD in English because English is your 2nd or 3rd language then say it in your native language, or in Russian “BOZHE”, or in Hebrew “JEHOVA”, or in Italian “DIO”, or “DUMNEZEU”, or Allah … etc, etc. And by the way your statement “No one ever died because people were being too reasonable. However, the same cannot be said of those who have been utterly convinced they were acting on behalf of an all-mighty god” it is out of context, those people are EXTREMISTS that write God with capital “G” and Evolution with “e” in the lower case; You, and others like you, are extremists too because you write God with “g” in the lower case and Evolution with capital E. Both of you are dangerous people, but luckily there are not too many of you out there, and on the other hand the rest of us, we the billions, write God and Evolution the right way. And by the way I lived more than 30 years in the athestic communistic society and you are wrong in everything you said in your previous message.”
This is called the Argument from Ignorance or the God of the Gaps Arguments. It goes something like, science hasn’t yet explained something so I can just say it must be magic. Not good enough. It doesn’t explain anything and in fact only posits something far more complex than the very thing you’re trying to explain. Then what created “God?” If you’re just going to say that “God” doesn’t need an explanation, then you’re revealing an inconsistency in your standards of evidence.
“You, and others like you, are extremists too because you write God with “g” in the lower case and Evolution with capital E. Both of you are dangerous people, but luckily there are not too many of you out there, and on the other hand the rest of us, we the billions, write God and Evolution the right way.”
It must be so wonderful having a dictionary the redefines words in order to suit whatever argument you choose to make. I prefer the Oxford Dictionary myself. I believe that dictionary defines those who redefine words in order to accuse anyone who disagrees with them as being extremists because they can’t handle adversity as being delusional ideologues.
“And by the way I lived more than 30 years in the athestic communistic society and you are wrong in everything you said in your previous message.”
What does that have to do with anything? Oh, right. It doesn’t. It’s just a childish ad hominem attack because you’ve got nothing else.
“You don’t need to reply to this message unless you really know for sure that other than God created the Universe (knowing that the Universe has a Beginning and that every Beginning has a cause, and also knowing that God does not resemble “God” from the Sistine Chapel – the Creation of Adam…)”
So your position has two fundamental principles:
1. Everything has a cause.
2. Not everything has a cause.
Brilliant logic.
“Hawking can’t explain it, and he says that there is a fine line between science and releigion, and he is awesome saying that. Are you smarter than Hawking? Hey, don’t be to hard on yourself!”
Back to the old Argument from Ignorance. Science can’t explain something yet, therefore it must be magic. And way to butcher Hawking’s position. Hawking, for the record, is an atheist accepts the Big Bang, Abiogenesis, and Evolution. Are you smarter than Hawking? Hey, don’t be to hard on yourself!
“You still didn’t answer my question and tell me the Pythagorean equation, you were supposed to learn it in the 4th grade, I guess you were busy learning God in the lower case then…”
Sorry, that question must have been lost amongst the dozens of other nonsensical questions you’ve asked. If you mean the Pythagorean Theorem, I’m surprised you acknowledge it. After all, it’s only a theory, right? Well, here it is:
a^2 + b^2 = c^2
So what’s your point?
Now I think I’ve wasted enough time with you. You’ve shown nothing but disrespect for me and science in general and have demonstrated that you have no interest in learning. Hope that whole willful ignorance thing works out for you.
Mjr256, you have attention deficit disorder. I told you do not answer this email unless you know for sure that other than God created the Universe… Get off the Web and have a life, you don’t have one!
Ah, flattery will get you nowhere, Octavian. Neither will shitty grammar that makes your sentences just as incoherent the second as the first.
I told you not to reply unless you know for sure that other than GOD created the Universe…and you messaged me a novel. You said ” Now if you were to ask the right question, ‘WHAT created the universe,’ that question has been definitively answered, The Big Bang.” Again you are wrong; the seeds of the Galaxy formation were created prior to the Big Bang…and yes my grammar is good, “prior” means “before”. So the Big Bang is just a phase of the Creation, and your statement “that question has been definitively answered, The Big Bang”…is a fallacy because the creation of the Universe started before the Big Bang! Flattery will get you nowhere, so why don’t you email Paul Steinhardt from Princeton or Neil Turok from Cambridge and argue with them, and tell them that their views are in contradiction with yours, and also show them your credential.
You should read “Astronauts who found God” by Chuck Coison. Neil Armstrong and Buzz Aldrin before they emerged from the spaceship Aldrin pulled out a Bible. Frank Borman the commander of the first space crew quoted Genesis One. James Irwin, who walked on the moon in 1971, became later an evangelical minister. Charles Duke, who followed Irwin to the moon made speeches about walking on the Moon and also about the Bible. Another astronaut Guy Gardner speaks in churches on the reality of God, etc, etc. If you do not believe in God that’s fine. I am not sure how we deviated from the blog’s topic, but my opinion is go and buy “Quantum Jumping”
Well, maybe don’t tell me what to do on my website? If you plan to continue to write misinformation on my website, I’ll respond however the bloody hell I choose. But I expect that if you want to be understood that you use proper English. Now maybe you should only reply if you can demonstrate with physical evidence that your particular tribal god created the universe. And no, our universe did not exist prior to the Big Bang, which was in fact the thing that created our universe. Now I’ve never heard of those particular evolution denialists but they haven’t commented on my blog, so I see no reason why they are worthy of my time. Further, informing me that there are smart people who believe in gods is not news, nor is it evidence of a god. There are snart people in Iceland who believe in elves. There are smart people who believe in all sorts of crazy things. So what? Where’s the evidence? And I can list just as many smart people who don’t believe in any gods: Stephen Hawking, Albert Einstein, Isaac Assomov, Richard Dawkins, Daniel Dennett, PZ Myers. Arguing over who has more on their side is entirely moot.
But getting back to the real topic of this blog, my opinion based on the overwhelming scientific evidence and the dishonesty of their website, is that Quantum Jumping is bollocks. And nothing you have said here has come anywhere close to persuading me otherwise.
m25j6r (I let you enjoy the anagram; well your English is much better than mine…figure it out) your messages are preposterous and everything you said is outdated, you didn’t read for a long time! It looks like those two geniuses I listed from Princeton and Cambridge do not impress you, and I guess you’ll continue to be a skeptic in your little, little world. So, you are trying to tell me that those heroes who walked on the Moon and believe in God (tribal God to paraphrase you), are not worthy of you…your majesty?
You listed Isaac Asimov as a smart person who didn’t believe in God. I don’t care; Asimov was a master of the science-fiction genre, and you should read less Science Fiction books and start reading real science books that could educate you and help you with your BLOG…. Thanks God your name is an alpha numeric one otherwise I would tell you that you are such an idiot, but hey your board has a short circuit! Don’t you love my English 🙂
Asimov was a biochemistry professor. He was also brilliant. But that’s not my point. That was YOUR point, that running off a list of undeniably smart people who happened to believe in your tribal god is proof that your tribal god exists. MY point was that the truth is indifferent to how many people, even smart people, believe it and that the only reliable way on which to determine objective truth is through empirical evidence and reasoned logic. And I have no trouble respecting people for the things they did that was worthy of respect without having to accept everything they happened to believe as being true. Once upon a time, smart people believed the world was flat and that the Earth was the center of the universe. If you had told Isaac Newton about the internet, he probably wouldn’t have believed it. But since it’s your contention that one has to blindly accept everything the great men of history believed, I can just as easily turn the question back on you. Are the atheists of history like Einstein, Thomas Paine, Percy Shelley, etc. not worthy of your majesty?
“Don’t you love my English”
FYI, questions end in question marks.
Mjr256, hold your horses young man, you definitely have a short memory problem, you are the one who put your hero, the Science Fiction writer Isaac Asimov, on the pedestal close to Einstein, not me. My heroes are those intelligent and hard working scientists from Princeton and Cambridge and other places, those people are on my list. I think your messages bring more damage to your community of “Non-Believers” than good…thank you. I used to read Asimov’s Science Fiction books when I was a teen, then I grew up and I started to chase women in my spare time instead of reading those kind of books, and I had more women in my life (thank you) than hair you have on your head. You read too much SF books that’s your big problem, that’s why your messages are a big mess. I think it is time for you to move forward, leave your puberty behind and start chasing women, and change yourself until it is not too late. Oh I forgot, you are the one with the alpha numeric name, you are so different than the rest of us, you have nuts and bolts and a short circuit board, and maybe your most important “screw” is too thin and short, that’s why no one gives you attention in your “community”. You should think twice before you post a message, or better get off the Web and get a Life, you know deep inside your heart that I’m right! I am going to block your emails, it seems obvious that you are out of control.
“Mjr256, hold your horses young man, you definitely have a short memory problem, you are the one who put your hero, the Science Fiction writer Isaac Asimo”
Um, no. It’s you who have the short attention span. I never claimed Issac Newton was a hero of mine. I simply listed him among a few well known scientists who were known atheists. I could have easily mentioned Ben Franklin, who was at best an atheist and at worst a Deist, and he is a “hero” of mine. And just because I put Asimov on a list with other atheist scientists, that doesn’t mean I put him “on the pedestal close to Einstein. Stop making shit up to dodge the issue.
The central point is that any list of people you can come up who agree with you (and let’s face it, merely calling oneself “Christian” is a far more diverse position than you let on) has no baring on objective truth. The truth is the truth whether a million people believe it or no one believes it. And the word “truth” is only meaningful insofar as it can be demonstrated. That requires empirical evidence and reasoned logic. Of course you have none, so you make long, ridiculous, and incoherent rants about nothing. Now I’ve never emailed you so block away.
Oh Octavian, just give it up.
It’s lame you should need to rattle off a list of reputable “believers” to make you feel better about your choices in faith. Power in numbers does not add up to truth, no matter how many people are saying something.
I’m going to go out on a limb and say: I believe a group of hostile inter-dimensional aliens are in control of our world. How do I know this? Well, they appeared to me in my room, and as I was shitting my pants and trying to close my jaw which was on the floor in pure awe & astonishment, they told/proved to me (telepathically) beyond any doubt that they were the real deal. It was a mental check mate, I couldn’t rebut.
Now, it’s irrelevant whether or not you believe me. I had the first-hand experience, and since I have verified it with other individuals who have had the same experience. Then came the books to further educate me, not the other way around.
If you don’t have a first-hand experience with what you call God, or your “creator”, which proves your faith beyond a reasonable doubt, you are a loser. To put faith in some ancient text (which you did not perform exegesis on personally), or the word of the masses, is just foolish.
Even more foolish to rail on other people for their beliefs just because they do not coincide with your fictional view of reality.
Well said, Jay.
Oh and you’re beloved bible-thumping space-travelers (Armstrong and Aldrin)…well, they saw alien ships and bases during their historic trip.
—-
“According to a former NASA employee Otto Binder, unnamed radio hams with their own VHF receiving facilities that bypassed NASA’s broadcasting outlets picked up the following exchange:
NASA: Whats there?
Mission Control calling Apollo 11…
Apollo11: These “Babies” are huge, Sir! Enormous!
OH MY GOD! You wouldn’t believe it! I’m telling you there are other spacecraft out there,
Lined up on the far side of the crater edge! They’re on the Moon watching us!
—
“A certain professor, who wished to remain anonymous, was engaged in a discussion with Neil Armstrong during a NASA symposium.
Professor: What REALLY happened out there with Apollo 11?
Armstrong: It was incredible, of course we had always known there was a possibility, the fact is, we were warned off! [by the Aliens]. There was never any question then of a space station or a moon city.
Professor: How do you mean “warned off”?
Armstrong: I can’t go into details, except to say that their ships were far superior to ours both in size and technology – Boy, were they big!…and menacing! No, there is no question of a space station.
Professor: But NASA had other missions after Apollo 11?
Armstrong: Naturally – NASA was committed at that time, and couldn’t risk panic on Earth. But it really was a quick scoop and back again.”
—
“According to Dr. Vladimir Azhazha (a physicist and Professor of Mathematics at Moscow University):
“Neil Armstrong relayed the message to Mission Control that two large, mysterious objects were watching them after having landed near the moon module. But this message was never heard by the public — because NASA censored it.” According to a Dr. Aleksandr Kasantsev, Buzz Aldrin took color movie film of the UFOs from inside the module, and continued filming them after he and Armstrong went outside. Armstrong confirmed that the story was true but refused to go into further detail, beyond admitting that the CIA was behind the cover-up.”
————
I’m not saying I believe any of the above- but it’s best to investigate the names you put out there to support your beliefs, because you obviously don’t know jack about those guys and it doesn’t mean two shits that they brought a bible along and quoted it.
mjr256, you should read a little bit more about Einstein:
On whether Einstein considered himself an atheist: “I’m not an atheist. The problem involved is too vast for our limited minds…”
On how Einstein feels about atheist efforts to claim him as an ally: “There are people who say there is no God, but what makes me really angry is that they quote me for support of such views.”
On the nature of God, Einstein said: “That deeply emotional conviction of a presence of a superior reasoning power, which is revealed in the incomprehensible universe, forms my idea of God.”
On how Einstein regards atheists: “The fanatical atheists…are creatures who cannot hear the music of the spheres. I do not share the crusading spirit of the professional atheist”.
On whether science and religion are at odds, Eninstein said: “The situation may be expressed by an image: science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind.”
This is a common fallacy made by the religious, the notion that one must adopt the label of atheist in order to not believe in a god. It’s complete bollocks. I don’t care if he called himself a teapot. That doesn’t change the fact that he did not believe in a personal deity but rather considered religion to be “childish.” http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24598856/
Now contrary to Einstein’s statements atheism doesn’t necessarily claim there is “no god” but rather is a lack of belief in a god or gods based on lack of evidence. Also, you’ve ignored the context of my statement, which was merely a response to a Christian’s listing of scientists who happened to consider themselves Christians as if that is sufficient criteria for proving Christianity. I was not attempting to do the same thing in the name of atheism as you seem to be implying. The intent was to point out the silliness of appeals to popular opinion or authority.
Einstein’s “idea of God” was not a personal god but a rhetorical one. He was not referring to a literal deity.
But like your friend above, you seem to be a fan of the appeals to authority. Einstein was a smart man but that doesn’t mean everything he said is true. In fact, many things he’s said have been disproven already. Quoting authorities in lieu of critical thinking is a religious failing. Science without religion is responsible for the very means you are using to communicate with me right now.
So with all due respect to Einstein, he was flat out wrong about atheism and about religion.
How do you know that Einstein’s “idea of God” was a rhetorical one? I was not referring to Christianity, I was thinking of Judaism. You know the idea of a human shaped God is against the thinking of the Hebrew and Einstein was a Jew. When Einstein said “That deeply emotional conviction of a presence of a superior reasoning power, which is revealed in the incomprehensible universe, forms my idea of God”, I believe he said it all because a Jew is a follower of Judaism and he considered himself a Jew. He was circumcised and did celebrate his bar mitzvah, and he did not reject his Jewish heritage. I am comfortable with his “idea of God”.
Einstein’s view of god has been well documented. Einstein specifically referred to the idea of a personal god as “childish” (his words). That goes for the Jewish god as well as any other personal god. There’s a big difference between cultural Judaism and believing that there’s a magic creature in sky controlling our destinies. I too am comfortable with Einstein’s “idea of god” as its merely an expression he used to describe a sense of awe at the wondrous nature of the universe.
Nobody believes that there’s a magic “creature” or a personal God in sky controlling our destinies, like Zeus from the Greek Mythology, and I am not sure why Einstein specifically referred to that idea of a “personal God”. Even in the Bible when Jesus referred to God as “Father”, he was not referring to a literal deity, it was a rhetorical one. We all feel “that deeply emotional conviction of a presence of a superior reasoning power”, and some of us are more or less overwhelmed by that, if that is called God or Organic Universe …so be it, I let that superior reasoning power penetrate me…
Yes, I know some people, particularly theists, hate when we use the word magic, but if the shoe fits…
By “personal god”, Einstein meant a conscious being that influences our world. Now I think many Christians would be quick to disagree with you about Jesus referring to a rhetorical god. As for how we know the Judeo-Christian god is supposed to be in the sky is that it’s made explicitly clear in the Bible. One example is in the Tower of Babel story, which would be utterly incoherent if “God” was capable of being reached by building a tall tower.
So, what you’re trying to say is that Einstein was spiritually homeless.
No. And I really have no idea how you reached that conclusion. Einstein had an immense sense of wonder and awe at the universe. He simply did not ascribe any kind of consciousness to it.
I think that the Tower of Babel story with the God in the sky is a metaphor, and we should not take it as “ad litteram”. The ancient Greeks knew that the gods didn’t live atop of the mountain Olympus though the mythology says so…well there were many monks who climbed the mountain and did not see anything up there. Maybe they did meditate up there and they found an unseen star gate…a sort of. There are many metaphors in the Bible, one of them is the Tower story you mentioned, and this does not make the Bible less sacred. Einstein’s view regarding atheists has been well documented on celluloid; the atheists made him very angry.
About Quantum Jumping, I think the author was thinking of Planck’s constant when he wrote his book, the atomic spectrum unique to each element is determined by quantum leaps between energy levels. Maybe he did an analogy and used the idea for the macro Universes. His idea works for me, as a matter of fact the atom with a nucleus and its electrons resemble our solar system, and I think I can go beyond it, to a macro-state of mind and imagine more universes …it is a lot of fun and like this guy Octavian I give the old guy the thumbs up.
That’s fine if you think so but the Bible seems to disagree with you as it gives no indication that that story is to be taken any less literally as any other story. But I agree that the Bible is far easier to take seriously if we can pick and choose which passages are to be taken literally and which are just crazy stories told by illiterate sheep herders in the desert. But I’m fairly sure that the Ancient Greeks DID believe the gods resided on Mount Olympus and if modern religions are any indication, I’m sure climbing the mountain to test the claim had little to know effect on people’s sacred beliefs.
“There are many metaphors in the Bible, one of them is the Tower story you mentioned, and this does not make the Bible less sacred.”
There are many metaphors in the Bible like for instance that whole son of god dying as sacrifice thing. However, if one reduces the Bible from the inspire word of god to being just another mythology book full of crazy stories, I think it very much DOES make the book less sacred. I think that’s a good thing.
And although I’ve already been through the whole Einstein thing, it doesn’t matter what Einstein said about atheists. Whether he chose to use the label of “atheist” or not, that doesn’t change the fact that he did not believe in a personal deity, which by definition makes him an atheist. And even if we ignore all that, it’s still all just an argument from authority since Einstein, while brilliant, was not an authority on everything and his opinions are not necessarily any more valid than anyone else’s.
And lastly, in relation to QJ, the actual subject of this blog, the claims made are patently unscientific and barring the necessary evidence, appear to be entirely fraudulent. Further, none of the scientists who’s names are used to sell this product actually endorse this product or any of the claims associated with it.
What are you trying to say is that we would be a better society now if Christianity wouldn’t exist? Those Christians 2000 years ago rather died in the Romans arenas than to pick up the sword and kill other human being…and that proved that the “Book” is sacred and that “whole son of god dying as sacrifice thing” is not a metaphor. Those Christians wouldn’t die in vain if they would perceive that everything was a lie, a metaphor. Well, like you said it is very well documented that Einstein did not believe in God or the “Son of God” therefore, as Jay or someone else here on your blog said, it was easy for him to urge FDR to build the atomic bomb and use it. Now tell the relatives and friends of more than 300.000 Japanese killed by those two atomic bombs that Einstein’s excuse was he didn’t believe in God or the “Son of God” and that he considered the Bible’s stories “childish”. Of course people like Charles Martel, who decapitated thousands of German barbarians 1500 hundreds years ago in his rage to convert them to Christianity, was wrong and we also know that the history repeated (inquisition, etc.) but those are exceptions, still I ask you if we would be a better society if the German barbarians, who believed in their own gothic gods, would take over the World in the past…we would be a better society now? We know what the German barbarians did in 1939-1945 in Europe and elsewhere.
Christianity was the best choice to bring our society “SAFE” to the present days, it was the best “RIDE” and we have to respect that. A true Christian and follower of the New Testament would never hurt someone else, would never invent an atomic bomb…that was the idea; rather he/she would help those in need, and because of that I think that the “whole son of god dying as sacrifice thing” is not a metaphor, and you can argue that as much as you want but there is nothing, nothing you can tell me to change my opinion. There is no doubt that you are a very smart, intelligent and altruistic person… Let’s keep it that way.
You’re growing more and more incoherent, Restless. While I do think society would be far better off without any religion, I don’t recall making that argument here. And while I acknowledge that some people regard the Bible as sacred and have even maybe died for that belief, that doesn’t prove anything other than they thought it was sacred. The people of Jonestown thought their beliefs were sacred too, as do the Mormons, Scientologists, and Islamic fundamentalists. Nobody is questioning the sincerity of these people. But that doesn’t validate the beliefs themselves in any way.
Further, what does Einstein’s lack of belief in a god have to do with his role in the Manhattan Project? Religion certainly doesn’t make anyone more more moral and if anything, it only makes people more willing to blindly follow authority or even behave immorally in a misguided belief that it’s the will of god. And what about all those Christians involved in dropping the bomb, like FDR, Truman, and the actual pilots that dropped it? But as tragic as it was, it ended the war and may very well have saved more lives in the long-run. And hell, even the Japanese have gotten over it by now, so surely you can.
I do have to call shananigans on the claim that Christian-based atrocities was an exception. The Crusades and Inquisition both lasted a very long time, and witch hunts lasted even longer. Biship Cyril ordered the destruction of the Library of Alexandria and the violent murder of its curator, Hypatia. This caused centuries of literature and scientific knowledge to be lost and set humanity on the path to a thousand-year Dark Age. Christianity silenced Galileo, tried to silence Darwin, and has consistently tried to stifle countless other scientific minds. Christianity was one of the greatest obstacles to abolition in the U.S. and to the female rights movement. Christianity has a long history of persecuting gays. Catholicism in particular continues to be responsible for the raping of countless children and helping the spread of AIDS in Africa. Christianity has also been undeniably the largest obstacle to gay rights and stem cell research. And if you believe that anything in the Bible was literally true then clearly the book is full of religious-based genocide.
None of these were actions that were the result of people who just happened to be Christians but rather were institutionalized acts conducted in the name of god. You seem to think I’m just anti-Christian and would happily prefer any religion to it. Again, my objection is to ALL religion. Society runs best when its people are rational and openly seek the truth, not when people are absolutely convinced they already have the truth and behave according to how they think mythical gods think they ought to. No one ever died because people were too reasonable.
“A true Christian and follower of the New Testament would never hurt someone else”
Of course not. Whenever they do hurt someone, Christians are very quick to throw them under the bus and proclaim that they were never really Christians after all no matter how much they were convinced otherwise just prior. If you change the definition of Christianity to exclude anyone who gives Christianity a bad name then you can’t lose. It’s like saying that no oval is circular and then presented with a circular oval, proclaiming that red ovals don’t count as ovals because they’re red. And then if it’s yellow, then yellow ovals don’t count either. Etc, etc, etc ad infinatum.
But maybe you’re right since clearly god never orders his followers to harm anyone in the Bible, right?
“you can argue that as much as you want but there is nothing, nothing you can tell me to change my opinion. ”
My point exactly. Thanks for illustrating the evil of religion far better than I ever could.
Have trouble laughing your ass off? Try Christianity.
It’s amazing how unconvincing the majority are when trying to defend their faith, and how blindly they follow it.
The dates, historic events, notable practitioners, I don’t see the point to listing any of them. The more these people talk, the more you see how confused they are. They really aren’t sure of anything, yet they’ve placed their bet – all in.
Why isn’t anybody dead-sure of themselves? Why doesn’t anyone have 1st-hand-experience to back it up? Are mystical experiences really that few and far between?
~~~
Ya know, a lot of big “Christian” names are only such in the public eye, being used as a cover-story to mask their double-lives. FDR a Christian? Well, he was a very high-ranking Freemason as well, and at the level he attained I’d bet he got into some very weird occult practices and beliefs. The real ones, not the one’s meant to deceive the public and lower-level initiates.
He was a war-time president and he did what he was told. If there was cross or image of Jesus in his office, well, then that was probably his unchanging “joke of the day”…
mjr256 brings up very good points…
Christianity has an awful, awful track-record and the list of its negative consequences is so lengthy and staggering in weight that it blows the mind.
Oppression, subjugation, rigidity…countless crimes against humanity, watered down and spiritually empty practices, concentration of wealth and power…
It’d done nothing but keep man down and dumb, and obedient, and using a very well-crafted mind-prison to go about ones day.
Any good done by Christianity could have been done without. People don’t need a damn book to tell them the “right” way to live, that is simple common sense.
The people of Jonestown were daily “poisoned” with drugs so they could be manipulated.
The Crusaders did not conquer other countries like the Turks did with their Ottoman Empire; the crusaders were trying to defend the European Western culture. Europe would be a different world now if the Ottoman Empire would succeed, and I assure you, you wouldn’t like it…
I said a true Christian, like those from Jesus time, would never hurt another human being in any way; I never talked about the religious fundamentalists, politics etc. As a matter of fact Jesus said that the religion, politics and business should never mix. If Galileo would live in Jesus’s time do you think that Jesus would silence him?
The scientists can be monsters too like any of those religious fundamentalists. Einstein’s greatest role in the invention of the atomic bomb was signing a letter to President Franklin Roosevelt urging that the bomb be built. What kind of conscious Einstein had? The theory of relativity famous equation of E=mc2 which provided the relationship between mass and energy led to the development of the atomic bomb. Those two bombs killed more people than all the people who were killed in the past in the Dark Ages because religious aberrations. Robert Oppenheimer like Niels Bohr, though was born in a jewish family, he did not observe the religious traditions…and just a thought if they would observe the religious traditions then 300000 inocent Japanese would be still alive now. The sciense and religion were suppose to go hand in hand, and you and Jay refuse to understand that, I am not sure why!
I am not sure if the pilot who dropped the bomb was a Christian, but anyway he was a soldier and at that time it was mandatory for men to be in the army. I know a man who was a soldier (it was also mandatory at that time), and I can tell you that he was/is a true Christian, he did not want to touch the gun so he was incarcerated several times, then he was brought to the court martial …still he refused to touch the gun. I am not making up the story.
You said “Oppression, subjugation, rigidity… countless crimes against humanity, watered down and spiritually empty practices, concentration of wealth and power…” you really made my vomit, you like to tell just half of the story. I want you to tell me about those more than 300000 inocent japanise who died in a blink of an eye because those geniuses. I don’t care if those religious people you mentioned got rich… they are humans like the rest of us.
Yes when we mix the religion with politics and business the result is a mess. It’s true that many intelligent people embrace both science and religion, and I like to believe about myself that I am one of them
The people of Jonestown were daily poisoned with religion, the most powerful drug of them all. LSD might make you think you can fly and cause you to leap off a roof, but it takes religion to get you to deliberately drink poison in an attempt to escape to an imaginary paradise. It takes religion to motivate someone to throw their lives away by hijacking an airplane and using it to kill thousands of innocent civilians.
The Crusades was about two different religious groups fighting over the same holy land. And a thousand years later, Christians, Muslims, and Jews are STILL fighting over the same worthless piece of land. If the war had gone the other way, it’s impossible to predict where we’d all be today and I really have no interest in arguing for either side in that senseless tragedy.
“As a matter of fact Jesus said that the religion, politics and business should never mix.”
He also said he came not to bring peace but a sword and that you must hate your family in order to follow him. Swell guy that Jesus.
“If Galileo would live in Jesus’s time do you think that Jesus would silence him?”
Doubtful as Jesus almost certainly never really existed.
“The scientists can be monsters too like any of those religious fundamentalists. Einstein’s greatest role in the invention of the atomic bomb was signing a letter to President Franklin Roosevelt urging that the bomb be built. What kind of conscious Einstein had?”
Quite a good one, I’d say. The A-bomb ended the war and probably saved saved millions of lives in the process. Hardly the actions of a “monster.”
“The theory of relativity famous equation of E=mc2 which provided the relationship between mass and energy led to the development of the atomic bomb.”
So you’re saying that knowledge itself is the enemy and it’s best to censor scientific knowledge whenever you don’t like the possible implications of that knowledge? Have I got that right?
“Those two bombs killed more people than all the people who were killed in the past in the Dark Ages because religious aberrations.”
Certainly more people in the quickest amount of time but certainly nowhere near the number of people who collectively suffered at the hands of the religious. But I refuse to turn this into a debate of what’s killed more. Cars kill lots of people too. So does water. It’s irrelevant.
“The sciense and religion were suppose to go hand in hand, and you and Jay refuse to understand that, I am not sure why!”
Facts. At just about every point in history scientific progress has been curtailed by religion. To this very day. Over 50% of Americans don’t accept the unifying theory of all of modern biology because they see it as a threat to their beliefs. They also reject cosmology, anthropology, archaeology, and countless other disciplines. This is not the fringe. This is the mainstream. Religion and science are rival views on how knowledge is acquired. Science says you should have a good reason to believe something and religion says obey authority. They’re two mutually exclusive ways of viewing the world and will never go hand in hand.
“I am not sure if the pilot who dropped the bomb was a Christian, but anyway he was a soldier and at that time it was mandatory for men to be in the army.”
Oh, so it’s okay to drop the bloody thing or to order it dropped but not okay to write a letter in support of building it. Thanks for clearing that up.
“You said “Oppression, subjugation, rigidity… countless crimes against humanity, watered down and spiritually empty practices, concentration of wealth and power…” you really made my vomit, you like to tell just half of the story. I want you to tell me about those more than 300000 inocent japanise who died in a blink of an eye because those geniuses.”
And because of the pilot who dropped it and the president who ordered it, and because of lots of people. There’s enough accountability to go around, I think. But again, even the Japanese are over it and take advantage of the benefits of nuclear power themselves as well as being great friends of the very nation that dropped those bombs. It’s ancient history. Get over it.
“Yes when we mix the religion with politics and business the result is a mess.”
Religion insists upon it. You can’t expect people to believe in Jesus on Sundays and not act in accordance with those beliefs after they leave church.
“It’s true that many intelligent people embrace both science and religion, and I like to believe about myself that I am one of them”
Many do embrace science and religion. However, it’s in spite of the teachings of their holy books, not because of them.
Mr.Jr, you are sound like a person with a very bleak outlook on life. Am I wrong? here are a couple of suggestions, Live a little, Maybe instead of trying to tell people how wrong they are, you should be be out there making the best of your life. It’s pretty short you know. Maybe you’ll be able to live to 100 years but after that you’re dead to this Earth. If people want to believe quantum jumping then they can do that, they seem to be doing something with their lives instead of telling people how stupid they are. I agree with the fact that this Burt guy is obviously ripping people off but if they want to to that follow that, that’s their choice. I know one thing in life, you sure can’t control humans.The best you can do is make suggestions. Do you really feel happy mr.jr, on the web, trolling? Science can’t explain everything. It really can’t. Einstein and other scientist were just people, you can’t base all your beliefs on people. We’re too unreliable. I may seem like a mother scolding you via the inter web but I just couldn’t let this go by. Have a good life, and lighten up, big guy! Haven’t you heard? “Don’t take life so seriously, no one gets out alive anyway”.(If you want, ignore this comment. I know you probably will anyway :D)
Sincerely, That Laid back follower of God.
You’re wrong. I’m actually quite jolly. Glad to hear your wonderful solution to the world’s problems is to throw up your hands and say, “Ain’t my problem,” and then completely ignore it.
“Science can’t explain everything. It really can’t.”
Prove it. Bonus points if you do so without using science.
‘Einstein and other scientist were just people, you can’t base all your beliefs on people.”
This is Peter Pan, isn’t it? Are you commenting while flying through Never Never Land?
“The people of Jonestown were daily poisoned with religion, the most powerful drug of them all”? Well, some members were ex-addicts who had kicked the habit under Jim Jones’ influence — there were enough drugs at the mission to supply a city the size of Georgetown, Guyana (population 66,000), according to an American pathologist who inspected the scene. I am sure that Jim Jones was an atheist in disguised looking for power, money, women etc., a true Christian would never hurt another human being. Manson’s “family” referred to Charles as “God” or “Jesus Christ”… What was your point with Jonestown.
“Christianity has an awful, awful track-record and the list of its negative consequences is so lengthy and staggering in weight that it blows the mind”. I am sure that those responsible for that were atheists in disguised, looking for power, money etc. As I said in a previous message a true Christian would never hurt another human being.
Germany already collapsed and Japan without Germany was on the verge to capitulate before the bombs were droped. Reffering to A-bomb you said “Quit a good one”. You are mean, you know that!
Drugs didn’t cause 900 people to commit mass suicide; the mindset of following the absolute and divine authority of a charismatic leader did.
“I am sure that Jim Jones was an atheist in disguised looking for power, money, women etc., a true Christian would never hurt another human being.”
I’d love to see you try and back up that preposterous statement with actual facts. You do know that Jones participated in the mass suicide, right? Hope all that money was worth it.
But let’s see what Jones’ son thinks:
My point about Jonestown is that religious influence is amoral (not to be confused with “immoral”). It’s like the Batman villain Two Face. After suffering brain damage, Two Face lost the ability to make moral decisions and so he compensates by flipping a coin whenever faced with a moral decision. Two Face might save your life…or he might kill you. He’s beyond good and evil because his decisions are not based on reason. Those who leave morality up to their interpretations of scriptures are like Two Face in that they do not base their morality on reason. Instead, they leave their moral decisions in the hands of their scriptures (or at least their interpretations of scriptures) or in the hands of other authorities.
So my point is, to quote Steven Weinberg, “With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.” Once one surrenders their rational faculties in favor of religious authorities, they’ve become mindless robots, tools of whoever commands them. And whether that commander turns out to be Jim Jones or Gandhi is pure happenstance. So the only practical ethical framework is one based on reason.
“I am sure that those responsible for that were atheists in disguised, looking for power, money etc.”
I’m sure you are. Your ideology depends on it.
I contend that whether or not a benevolent exists is wholly irrelevant to morality. As I’ve argued in the past, human morality is primarily based on a trial and error process of figuring out what is best for the progress or success of human society. Here’s where human beings, and not gods, come together to form objective and subjective morals without any need of outside agency. What we come to call “good” is merely what is good FOR US (society) and what we call “bad” is merely what is bad FOR US (society). (http://blogs.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendId=145688843&blogId=519323530)
Lots of drug addicts believe that they are Godsend. “You do know that Jones participated in the mass suicide, right? Hope all that money was worth it.”
“I have no religion”, Bernard Madoff said. You know that he is in jail for life, right? Hope all that money was worth it.
You don’t want to listen; I said a true Christian would never hurt another human being in any way. C’mon all your examples are preposterous, they do not have anything in common with Jesus or the Christians from the Bible, you know that! What’s wrong with you?
Are you seriously going to start cherry-picking Madoff quotes now? I’m sure Madoff has also said he was innocent at some point too. Trustworthy guy, that Madoff. I have no idea whether Madoff is religious or not, and I doubt you do either. And it’s an entirely moot point.
As I’ve already said, nobody doubts that there are good people who are religious and bad people who aren’t. If your idea of a sound argument is to build a list of good people who happened to also be religious and bad people who may or may not have been atheists, I’ll even help you. MLK Jr. was mostly a good person and he was religious. JFK was mostly a good person and he was religious. Stalin was probably an atheist and he was a bad person. So what? As I’ve already argued, there is no correlation between religiosity and morality. But can you name me a single moral act that can be performed by a religious person that cannot be performed by a non-believer? What about a wicked act that was performed explicitly because of religion?
“You don’t want to listen; I said a true Christian would never hurt another human being in any way.”
And as I’ve already explained, you’re applying circular logic by deliberately changing the definition of Christianity to include the inability to hurt anyone. Thousands of priests have hurt people. But you’ll just write them off as having not really been Christian. Well fine. Then I’ll change the definition of atheist too. A true atheist would never hurt another human being in any way. Or even better, a true human would never hurt another human being in any way. So now if anyone acts immorally and hurts someone in any way, it’s no longer necessary to view them as human beings.
“C’mon all your examples are preposterous, they do not have anything in common with Jesus or the Christians from the Bible, you know that!”
The Crusades had nothing to do with Jesus? The Inquisition had nothing to do with Jesus? Hundreds of years of witch hunts had nothing to do with Jesus? Bullshit!
Does the Bible have to do with Jesus? Because it was explicitly used to justify the continuation of the slave trade as it both directly condones and promotes slavery:
Exodus 21:2-6 NLT
Exodus 21:7-11 NLT
Exodus 21:20-21 NAB
Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT
Deuteronomy 15:12-15
Ephesians 6:5 NLT
1 Timothy 6:1-2 NLT
Colossians 4:1
Luke 12:47-48? NLT
1 Peter 2:18
The Bible was also used to justify the further subjugation of women:
Ephesians 5:22-23, Colossians 3:18, 1 Peter 3:1, 1 Timothy 2:11-12
Other morally objectionable passages:
Ex. 17:13, Num 21:3, Num 21:35, Deut 2:21-22, Deut 2:34, Deut: 3:6, Deut 25:19, Josh 6:21, Josh 8:22-26, Josh 9:23, Josh, 10:10, Josh 10:28, Josh 11:11, Josh 11:21, Judges 1:5, Judges 1:8, Judges 1:17, Judges 1:25, Judges 8:17, Judges 11:21, Judges 11:33, Judges 16:30, Judges 17, Judges 21, 1st Sam 11:11, 1st Sam 14:36, 1st Sam 15:7-8, 1st Sam 15:18-19, 1st Sam 18:6-7, 1st Sam 30:17, 2nd Sam 8:2, 2nd Sam 12:31, 2nd Kings 14:7, 2nd Kings 15:16, 2nd Chron 14:14, 2nd Chron 36:17
My examples refer to institutional abuses ordered or directly condoned by church authorities and carried out by countless peoples who believed those leading them spoke for god. Your idea of an example, however, is to pick out lone individuals who may or may not have behaved immorally and who may or may not have been atheists, and through tortured logic, try to argue that that lone individual is representative of all atheists in order to hold onto your belief that only atheists commit evil and never “true Christians.” Well I’m sorry but it doesn’t work that way. There is no model atheist as, unlike religion, atheism has no central tenets or dogma. The only thing that all atheists have in common is a lack of belief in a god or gods. Atheism doesn’t even mean a lack of religion necessarily as most Buddhists, for instance, are also atheists. Just because you’re held to a certain ideology because you happened to be born in a Western nation don’t try to fit the rest of us into your little box. The evidence doesn’t support it:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/7189188/Atheists-just-as-ethical-as-churchgoers.html
“What’s wrong with you?”
I’m way too patient. We’re done. You’ve got nothing intelligent to bring to this discussion and have wasted enough of my time. Goodbye.
“…Christianity has also been undeniably the largest obstacle to gay rights and stem cell research.” Hmmm, I think those are Conservative Republican views, most of the Christians are Democrats. Although I am a straigth guy, I do believe that everybody has the right to live with dignity. Just a thought, if Elton John would use Viagra in the past…he would still be married to his ex-wife Renate Blauel. Yeah, Viagra can change a Gay into an awesome Straight Guy… you should try some!
I’ll let that stand without comment. You made my point for me.
“I’ll let that stand without comment. You made my point for me”. ?!?!?!?!, well it is you not me who wrote somewhere above “Evolution is a process that necessitates reproduction”…you don’t agree with that anymore? You know, without straight people there will be no more Mankind, and no more Godless people like you for instance, you know that. I don’t care about your sentence “…Christianity has also been undeniably the largest obstacle to gay rights”, it is your problem not mine, I gave you a solution “the blue pill” and some hot girls and you’ll change your habit; I care of the relatives of those innocent hundreds of thousands of people who died because the A-bombs invented and built by Godless people; and you were so insensitive giving them your thumbs up, shame on you! How you dare to judge me.
I know your faulty views about Nagasaki and Hiroshima, and now I know who you are. Just for the sake of it, did you help with money those in need because the recent Haiti’s massive earthquake? Well, I did !
The statistics prove that people with faith are happier and live much longer than the others, and this is only one example from many why you should believe in God. I remember I read on this blog a message by Jay I think, and he said that you are a very, very unhappy person. But hey it is your life, you are the Master of your Domain!
Restless, quit embarrassing yourself. You’ve already proven to be completely ignorant of science, evolution, pyschology, ethics, history, and reality in general. Hell, you can’t even deliver your ignorant diatribes on articles actually relevant to your argument. There’s more than one book out there. I suggest you pick some of them up and actually read them some time. You say there are statistics proving people of faith are happier and live longer? Where? Show me the peer-reviewed study. Otherwise, don’t waste my time.
-Your happy and friendly neighborhood atheist.
Ok, don’t worry have a nice life 🙂
Is this blog about having your way no matter what? “Hell, you can’t even deliver your ignorant diatribes on articles actually relevant to your argument”; It looks like you agree with the other guy that he had relevant arguments, just that you couldn’t handle the truth.
No, trying to have their own way is my commenter’s thing. I prefer to get the truth regardless of whether it disagrees with my preconceived notions or not. As for comments not being relevant to the subject of the actual article, you can’t blame me for that. I merely responded to people’s comments. You can see for yourself by reading the comment history.
“It looks like you agree with the other guy that he had relevant arguments, just that you couldn’t handle the truth.”
I don’t know what you’re trying to say in this sentence. Certainly there are some people who stuck to addressing the actual topic of the article. However Adam (or should I call you Jack?) I’d be happy to read your defense of the statement that I “couldn’t handle the truth.”
Yes I read a little bit and I enjoyed it; it was like watching figure skating last week Lysacek vs Plushenko, and you are Plushenko.
I’ll just have to assume that Plushenko is the awesome one. Thanks for the compliment.
In Plushenko’s mind and website, he’s the platinum medal winner, in reality he got the silver. The good thing about Plushenko was that he came to his senses after one day. I think Restless deserves the “Gold”, I liked his last message “Ok, don’t worry have a nice life”, he responded with class like Lysacek. Your last message to Restless was definitely “borrowed” from Plushenko’s website.
If Restless conforms to your standard of classiness and greatness, then I was right to take your Plushenko statement as a compliment.
I did not say that I am on his side or your side, and the metaphor was about his and your “exit” from the blog’s topic, and now I am sorry I said that; in person I’m more of a listener than a talker. We need more people like Plushenko and Lysacek in Arts, Science and Religion.
This is just too much fun. Way more than doing any amount of “Quantum Jumping”.
mjr256, my hat’s off to you for starting and maintaining an excellent conversation.
I prefer to approach this with something paraphrased from Allan Watts, that it’s far better to enjoy the dance than to worry about how to get to the other side through the crowds and music.
But then, healthy discussions are a mental dance, aren’t they?
And one point I haven’t seen above (although I have to admit I skimmed through certain responses) is that maybe this scammer Burt Goldman is using the whole thing as a metaphor?
Or is metaphysics considered a dance around physics?
It all comes down to freedom of choice people. No one can make anyone believe or not believe anything. Do some research on the Philidelphia experiment.
This has nothing to do with choice. We’re talking about objective reality, which doesn’t not change based on one’s refusal to believe in it. Can the quantum jumping people do what they claim to do? The answer is no.
And I don’t know what you think the Philadelphia Experiment was but rumors of its paranormality have been more than mildly exaggerated:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philadelphia_Experiment
looks like he did the research…
thedefiantofsuppression,
It’s called having standards of evidence. You should try it some time. Don’t shift the burden of proof. You make a claim and it’s YOUR job to back it up, not everyone else’s job to definitely disprove whatever nonsense you’ve asserted. I’ll happily accept any claim so long as I’m given a good reason, but you have to give me a good reason. And I have no patience for people who trot out endless lists of excuses for why they can’t give me a good reason.
I smell trolls
I would love to hear your view on 2012! Were the Mayans incorrect – or is it just another 2000, new millennium trigger?
Well for starters, the Mayans never said anything about 2012. They didn’t think that far ahead. If you mean what do I think of non-Mayan opportunistic writers think about 2012, I don’t think very much of them at all. And if they’re so certain about it, they shouldn’t mind agreeing to give me all their money in the event that 2012 comes and goes without the apocalypse. But oddly enough nobody seems willing to sign that agreement.
It always cracks me up when people get scared about the end of the world on 2012 or other shit like that.
All calendars(in our homes) end at the end of the year right? I mean, people in general throw away the calendar they have in their home at the end of the year. Then they will buy a new one at the start of the year.
Its the same applied to this idea. Mayan Calendar is just a CALENDAR, for god’s sake! This calendar ends on the date 21/12/12. If Mayan calendar ends, then another calendar has to be made for the upcoming years.Thats it. Problem solved!
I wrote a comment to Burt Goldman’s site but it didn’t get past the censors.It goes like this…HELLO SUCKERS!!! “Burt Goldman” is a glue sniffing crackpot on crack.If you’ve purchased his B.S.,You DESERVE to be robbed!The real quantum jump is your money into his offshore account. AH HAHAHA!!If you truly desire to experience another dimension try DMT. or LSD. It’s cheaper.Remember ignorance is bliss.Fools and thier money.TSK TSK. Have fun drooling on yourselves.
I guess Burt hasn’t learned from a parallel self yet how to not censor comments.
This aiso reminds me of “astral projection”.Back in the 80’s a misguided friend of mine loaned me a cassette that was supposed to allow you to A.P. It was some guy speaking in a low monotone while a background score of birds chirping and a rising & falling melody played.It put me to sleep.If dreaming & A.P.are the same thing,perhaps Seroquel could be marketed as a gateway drug.
Back again w/ another observation.Is it just me or does “Burt” resemble that other delusional huckster Oral Roberts? With money being thrown at ridiculous studies, perhaps I should apply for a grant to find out if it’s genetics or something akin to dogs resembling their owners and vice versa.I could title it “Cookie Cutter Con men: A Study of Quackery in the Americas”.If anyone is interested in funding this study,post a comment here.I promise not to squander the “research” money.
Ok, so I didnt pay for this crap but I followed the instructions and the junk turns out to be self -hypnosis with some other crud mixed into the mess. So,I follow the theory and I try to do the system all the while thinking that I will be talking to another me. Im under and I am thinking Im under. I am beside myself in my master bedroom but its not exactly the same as mine! So, now Im dreaming and I know it. I go along and speak to the other self..the IT. IT speaks and IT doesnt sound like me. It has no Texas Accent! And when IT stands up off the bed its skinny. It begins asking me questions and I cant help but answer. How are you so fat? I explained the car accident and the spine damage chronic pain and morphine. IT asks me about our wife. ITs left him years ago and now how is this IT suppose to be me in another universe? ITs different. I want to wake up and I start to setup and IT wont let me. IT wants to come to where I am and take my place! I dont want to be where ever IT is and I tell IT so. I finally manage to wake the hell up and I am exhausted, sweating a river and sick to my stomach. Three hours had passed. So, the experience was a dream, a self delusion based upon wishful thinking, a state of hypnosis where a dream became more real, or Im totally nuts or my meds went crazy too me with them or I met a real life mind DEMON! If I had paid for this crud Id want my money back and to tell everyone not to practice self hypnosis unless you have someone you can trust beside you. And has instructions to wake you up no matter what.
wel, well,well I spent 15 minutes writing a reply and it is being removed. WTH? It was not spam and was my thoughts on this subject and yet it is being removed
Seriously, Iam not going to EVER visit your blog again.EVER!
mjr256, why the heck you write blogs if you don’t want to read other people comments and JUST DELETING it for no reason? Iam really pissed off with this.
Good bye forever mjr256!
Apparently quantum jumping didn’t teach you how to wait patiently for my spam filter. But with the kind of idiotic reasoning you subscribe to, I think I’d rather you didn’t come back.
Whoa. 111 comments and the author replied to nearly all the posts.
Well.I feel so sorry for you. You are going to miss one of the best personal developement tools because of your useless skepticism.
Yes, apparently believing only in things I have a good reason to believe in is useless. Say, I have these magic beans I’d like to sell you, Jack.
well, seems like you don’t like this product because he makes more money than you.
Then it seems like you didn’t read the article or any of the comments that followed. It also seems like you don’t like this article because you have an ideological bias towards this nonsense.
hehe, I was laughing my ass of reading YOUR article….seeing your unwillingness to try new things..
and I read few of comments. I guess you should read some of them too in a open minded manner.(people such as jay and restless
Open-mindedness is great, so long as you’re not so open-minded that your brain falls out. The claims being made not only unproven by science or defy plausibility to but can quite reasonably said to be impossible. But if you disagree, I’ve got some magic beans I’d like to sell you.
lol….that was a nice comeback!
Anyway,can you tell me some personal development programs you know that is proven by science to be true and delivers what it claims?
Personal development isn’t technically the role of science but I can recommend psychologist Richard Wiseman’s book “59 Seconds,” which explores the topic of self-improvement, including some techniques that really are scientifically proven to be effective.
[…] Claus, The Easter Bunny, and whatever other crazy, childish beliefs you choose to subscribe to. Have trouble laughing your ass off? Try Quantum Jumping Skepacabra I would love to hear your viewpoints about […]
Well mjr256, do you want citation where physicists talk about Quantum Jumping or parallel universes??
Here are some of them I found:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/horizon/2001/parallelunitrans.shtml
http://www.cosmolearning.com/documentaries/physics-of-the-impossible-how-to-travel-to-a-parallel-universe-710/
http://www.edge.org/documents/day2/day2_guth_index.html
Michio Kaku is a THEORETICAL physicist. He’s not referring to any empirically proven science, only speculation. Kaku also talks a lot about time machines, lightsabers, and fanciful transhumanist ideas. He’s not saying any of it is scientifically proven or even possible. Thinking creatively about science is his job. And he NEVER mentions “quantum jumping” even once. There’s a big difference between what theoretical physicists are talking about when they invoke speculations about parallel universes and what the scammers selling “quantum jumping” are talking about. “Quantum jumping” isn’t even a scientifically coherent term given that it doesn’t in any way relate to real quantum physics. It’s simply shamelessly capitalizing on people’s ignorance of quantum physics.
But even if we pretend for a moment that what these assholes are selling is a scientific reality, one would think there’d be a million more interesting, more lucrative, and more profound applications for such technology than fulfilling people’s vanity projects for self-help. The very fact that these assholes aren’t recognized by any scientific institution at all, let alone Nobel Prize winners, is a testament to how gullible their customers/marks are.
But of course, your worst error is in misunderstanding how the scientific method works and in thinking that science is proven by popular opinion. Even if your sources actually addressed “quantum jumping” (which not one of them actually does) and even if those sources included numerous examples of reputable scientists endorsing this warped belief, that would still be scientifically worthless. Science is determined by EVIDENCE, not popular opinion or anecdotes or wishing really really hard that magic is real. Science has a far keener appreciation of human imperfection and fallibility than pseudoscience. That is why no matter how many doctors can be found to claim smoking doesn’t cause cancer and no matter how many scientists can be found to deny evolution or global warming, it doesn’t make a lick of difference. Science is determined by evidence and evidence alone. And not one of your sources was to study demonstrating quantum jumping under controlled conditions or even to an article making reference to any studies demonstrating quantum jumping is a reality. All you’ve done is point to theoretical physicists geeking out over fanciful speculations about parallel universe. And while that’s all in good fun, nobody including Dr. Kaku would suggest there’s any legitimate science demonstrating those speculations are proven science. And there’s certainly nothing about the theoretical concept of parallel universes that physicists speculate about that makes “quantum jumping” even remotely possible.
My suggestion is that you either grow up and stop believing in magic, educate yourself about how science works, and quantum jump yourself someplace else. I don’t have time to waste on this level of nonsense.
apparently you do have the time considering you replied to all these apparently woefully ignorant people with there worthless is ideas… I noticed you use text macros for some of your paragraphs thats somewhat efficient… its all about who makes the most sex and babys! haven’t you seen idiocracy ! 😮 its nerd alert v. burn outs… who makes more of the sex? 😀 thats all that matters I remember when I use to try and beat some sense into the world of usenet using coherent logic and intellectually honest stand points later in life I realize life is a little more complicated in that it makes no sense and people are retards join in the retard rebellion or lose out the inmates took over the asylum a long time ago these days you can buy ready made science/philosophy using the PR and lobbyist firms on K street in washington even your own truths… :O its all marketing baby its all marketing… its the knuckleheads, the nerds and the burnouts always back and forth throughout history who is right nobody! lets get fucked up wooo hooo nihilism take a look at somlia because thats lvin the libertarian dream if you make the sex you make the babys you make the future… rational people do reasonable things like curb population growth through birth control and abortion or eugenics hehe
god this thread is entertaining it reminds me of the good old days when I was a niave kid on the net and thought the world made sense or could be understood… nerd alert! but the burnouts are just as self involved and important in their own way… and the new age thinkers or traditional relgionists… well koolaid tastes good if it feels good do it waahhoooo!
ask yourself people are you making enough of the sex are you? its not about life having meaning its feeling it baby!
Some people say humans aren’t reasonable but rationalize…. ex post facto… that probably happens more times often than not… and the imperative to rationalize must be based on a more primal emotion/feeling not the other way around so reason comes from the irrational? maybe who knows who cares make sexy times!
and some more here
http://discoveryenterprise.blogspot.com/2010/01/how-to-travel-to-parallel-universe.html
http://bigthink.com/ideas/21810
and atlast some more I found(sorry for multiple postings 🙂 )
http://www.thefreelibrary.com/When+worlds+collide%3A+parallel+universes+aren%27t+supposed+to+be…-a0179935537
http://il.youtube.com/watch?v=YGkYlW6y6H8&feature=related
http://www.worldsciencefestival.com/2009/infinite-worlds
http://il.youtube.com/watch?v=C-LZ-mH4f-w&feature=related
http://il.youtube.com/watch?v=BWEW_3Z7XVE&feature=related
http://il.youtube.com/watch?v=3DoNmN66Pcc&feature=related
Gotta love you idiot pseudo-skeptics. You cherry pick and offer NO evidence to back up your asinine claims. Nothing but a bunch of dumbasses.
I didn’t make any claims; I expressed doubt of someone else’s claims. The burden of proof is not on me. Suppose I claimed to have had sex with Angelina Jolie last night. You’d have every reason to doubt that claim as it’s fairly unbelievable. But doubting that claim is not itself a claim and does not warrant any kind of evidence to justify that doubt. Rather, the burden of proof would be in the claimant, namely me. That’s how evidence works.
Read some of comments and seems like the author of this article is nearly skeptical about everything that people believe!I do agree skepticism is necessary but, this is utterly ridiculous.
Good luck man
Nope, just skeptical of the things people have no good reason to believe. And if one has no good reason to believe something, they probably shouldn’t believe it.
I can’t believe there are dumbasses believing this crap. Thanks for writing this article!
Reading the comments here,I gave quantum jumping a try. All I can say is it is a complete FRAUD! He makes ridiculous claims about the effects of quantum jumping. Honestly, I tried to believe Quantum jumping to be true and did some of the meditations with open mind but as I continue to listen, it was extremely difficult to believe it to be true. Let me tell one example from that course:A lady in one of her seminars got cured of the lump in her breast just by staring at a stick fgure(called as “dwadle” by that old man) for 30 seconds…!!He goes on and on saying things like these!
And two of the CDs in the 6 CD set is pure crap! It contains nothing but his ramblings about how quantum jumping worked for others..WTF??
I do know marketers say some lies to sell their product…But this is just just too much crap to believe!
Razor,
If you have purchased the product and it is indeed making medical claims unsupported by science, you can legitimately report them to the FDA here:
http://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/email/oc/buyonline/buyonlineform.cfm
And here’s an article discussing when to report fraudulent medical claims on the internet:
http://skepticblog.org/2010/01/14/get-fed-up-report-medical-quackery-to-the-fda/
Well, here’s one problem with the argument.
What’s extraordinary to Tom could well be rather ordinary and everyday to Dick. On the other hand, Dick does not necessarily feel interested or obliged to prove anything to Tom.
The world has plenty of extraordinary people doing extraordinary things. And many, many more ordinary people who wouldn’t believe in them.
Except that if you’re going to charge money for a service, you are both morally and legally obligated to perform that service. If you can’t even empirically prove that this service is even possible for anyone to do, let alone prove you can do it, that’s called fraud. If you disagree, I’ve got some magic beans I want to sell you.
oh how my soul (or stochastic electro-chemical impulses, whatever) cringes at the stellar incoherence of so many ‘anti-skeptics’ trying so very hard on this board…mjr256, while i personally believe that you are skeptical to a point where you dismiss certain subjective yet valuable (while i’m tempted to use “valid”, i’ll refrain so we don’t have to re-do the empirical test dance) facets of reality, i still want to give you an entire pack of shiny banana stickers for dealing with so much painful stupidity presented in an incomprehensible format on your blog. i thought i’d just give you a tip o’ the hat in recompense for the entertaining hour or so i received reading this thread. i s’pose the subjectivity of existence is fairly well illustrated by all the energy poured into the futile quest to change entrenched opinions on either side. sorry to everybody trying to flex their heartminds, but science is a fantastically necessary BS detector/eradicator. sorry to everybody hanging on to current science as the end-all be-all, as science itself is in a constant state of flux and evolution (not discounting scientific method, just pointing out that our tools are increasing in complexity at an exponential rate, so reserving a wee section of our minds for ‘wonder’ allows some space for science to grow into). the greeks posited atoms, so western science churned until we found the atom. that didn’t solve all the mysteries of the universe, so quantum theory evolved, allowing discoveries into the entanglement of observer/observed. quantum spookiness has proven to be a whiz in the subatomic world, but good ol’ newtonian physics still does a damn fine job of describing why your fingers don’t just squish right through your keyboard while raving for or against jesus. so we’re progressing into string theory and m-theory, which (remember, new-agers, theoretical; remember, hard-liners, theoretical science is a necessary antecedent to ‘hard’ discoveries) is attempting to describe multidimensionality to brains that can only perceive in 3 spatial dimensions.
we observe a dot [.]
rotate one’s perspective 90 degrees, and we can observe a line [——]
continue shifting your perspective, and that line can be observed to actually be a plane:
_______
/ /
/_______/
with further exploration and shift of perspective, the plane reveals itself to be one face of a cube:
[alright, i suck at ascii art, so the gentle reader will have to fill in this blank]
…and so on and so forth.
i s’pose the reasoning behind my meandering (aside from a hearty pat on the back to mjr256 for taking the time to continue entertaining/responding to well-intentioned, passionate, and thoroughly incomprehensible jackaninnies) is to give a nod to the potential viability of exploring consciousness through ‘old’ technologies for searching its fringes, whether through psychedelics (depending on the particular variant, there is no evidence of “frying your brains”, as there is still lively scientific debate as to the particular mechanism of action), meditation, holotropic breathing, a really good and willfully controlled/extended orgasm, etc. The probability is solid that these are literally innerscape adventures; however, the theory that altered states of consciousness are actually more concrete, in the sense that we’ve manipulated certain sensory processors to perceive extra-dimensionality should not be outright discarded with the proverbial bathwater. There’s just not enough hard scientific experimentation/investigation due to the restricted legal status since the government got all crabby ’bout it in the 60s. That led to unfair bias & stigma in ‘accepted’ scientific circles, which has unfortunately forced the body of research into the current underground anecdotal trappings. There has been research showing that much science progresses in fits & starts that correlate with the ‘old guard’ scientific mainstream aging and dying, allowing room for the ideas of heretical youth to be fully explored. i just thought i’d try and slap together a moderately cogent statement in favor of some good ol’ fashioned Weirdness, while not trying to ignore our good friend n’ guide Science. carry on.
told you i sucked at ascii art – just picture the plane…i know you can…i believe in you!
lol
dare i hope for your two cents on my wee rant here?
and i have no recollection (nor excuse, if i am guilty) of posting “lol” here…or anywhere, for that matter. generally, the “lol” is a hallmark of incredibly diminished intellectual/creative capacity…if the lack of commentary is due to this digital equivalent of a festering boil, i’d understand. it’s so out of character that if i did post it, i could only blame a forgotten bout of liver-pickling drunkenness…though i don’t own this, i heartily retract it in the name of continued dialogue.
As you said quite well, “science is a fantastically necessary BS detector/eradicator.” Totally agree. And I like how you explained how science progresses over time. I also want to thank you for the positive feedback. Just imagine, this is what I deal with on a regular basis. 😦
I think there are many aspects of life where subjective evidence can be at least useful in drawing our attention to something that may be important. But when it comes to introducing new phenomena, I think subjective evidence (as in anecdotal evidence) is scientifically worthless. We know human perception and memory are deeply flawed. And there is no shortage of superstitions that have plagued humanity that came about because people relied on anecdotes instead of empirical evidence for their beliefs. I see the consequences of this emphasis on subjective evidence, what Stephen Colbert calls “truthiness”, literally every single day now that I’m actively promoting science and reason, and so my approach has become to emphasize hard empirical evidence and the mechanisms of flawed thinking. As the motto goes, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Now I’d like to believe there isn’t any concept I wouldn’t ultimately accept as true if compelling empirical evidence were presented and I think I have a solid track record for changing my mind when presented with physical evidence and reasoned logic. For instance, less than four years ago, I could have been one of the commenters here that I’m now debating. Once I was exposed to proper arguments, those believes faded almost over night.
Before I tell you all what I know of the metaphysical world in relation to this, let me clearly state something. I have some kind of block or problem that prevents me from experiencing much success from virtually everything metaphysical that I do. I have done Flowdreaming, Quantum Jumping, hypnosis, Japa, the Moses Code, Instant Magick, using artificially created spirits/elementals attached to stones, Silva’s meditations, subliminal affirmations, regular affirmations, affirmative prayer, Angel Therapy, angel rituals, etc. Each of these things, when I use them, it’s… okay. I never really feel FANTASTIC or have even a mild paranormal experience let alone a dramatic healing. However, friends and family have tried some of these techniques and they do wonders for them but not for me.
I’ve learned I cannot do certain mental/emotional things because I cannot get out of my head that is trying to figure out HOW. I cannot “let go,” or “forgive” or “open my heart” or “just allow it to happen” etc. I have been working with healers trying to overcome this issue – and I’m starting to make a little headway. So anyways, I cannot be the inspirational success story for you yet.
What HAS worked for me are oracle card readings using decks designed by Doreen Virtue, Sonia Choquette, John Holland, etc. Debra Lynne Katz’s books “You Are Psychic” and “Extraordinary Psychic” have given me the most profound and effective experiences in finally being able to be clairvoyant. The healings I have been able to do for other people with these same methods have been extraordinary. I used a BASIC healing method with very little energy for a lady who had an infection from her hysterectomy. Not only did her infection heal, but she recovered through the rest of her hysterectomy overnight. I’m a Reiki Master of about 40 systems and that provides me with a great amount of success as well – though I still have profound difficulty in healing myself. If you want to get something that WORKS, I recommend “Extraordinary Psychic” by Debra Lynne Katz. It’s the sequel to her first book, but it contains all of the most useful information and techniques from the first one so the sequel is really a great place to start. There is very little I have come across as powerful and effective as THAT. For Reiki, I STRONGLY suggest http://www.healingreiki.com and purchasing Steve Murray’s DVDs for the Reiki attunements. They WORK and have given me great abilities to help people heal.
I have purchased both Burt Goldman’s Quantum Jumping and MindBox products, and before anyone wants to say it’s a scam – when they didn’t work for me, I was given a complete refund. Some of the techniques ARE effective and useful… for other people. I haven’t experimented with ALL of them, but his dwadle didn’t work for me. His Wave of Goodness hasn’t done anything that I noticed. The Bagha is the most important thing he teaches, nad it doesn’t work for me. I’m trying his tapping technique and I’m going to try one of the Quantum Jump exercises I haven’t had the opportunity to use yet called the Solution technique, but I have tried most of his techniques.
First of all, his method for going into alpha state sucks – for me, anyways. I have my own self-hypnosis method that works better taught by Tom Silver, but that’s another long post, lol. However, if you can get yourself into a hypnotic state, you might actually benefit from these techniques. They are oversimplified and not REALLY worth $97, but then again, I took advantage of the guarantee and still have the tracks and my money. Quantum Jumping is, essentially, going into a meditative state, intending to connect with an alternate you, visualizing yourself in front of a door to that parallel universe, open it, go through it, and meet your doppleganger. You can talk with it and get advice. You can merge with it and let your energy rise to its energy. If you want an object, let him/her give it to you and you can imagine using it or having it. Bam, you’re done.
To date, nobody has demonstrated the existence of a “metaphysical world.” So one would think that’d be a crucial first step before charging people money for products that allegedly take advantage of said world. This is not a matter of being close-minded but of being told to believe in things on insufficient evidence. Anecdotes are not now, nor have they ever been a valid means of proving new phenomena in science. And there’s a very good reason why. Because human perception is incredibly flawed and we’re prone to fall victim to a host of personal biases such as the placebo effect. Now scam artists are very much aware of this and take advantage of it by making their claims either so vague that any effect at all can be attributed to it them or full of convenient excuses for the failure of any effect, often ones that blame the customer themselves for the failure. The fact is that these scams have no real predictive power at all. If someone is expecting an effect, they’ll attribute anything to the product and if someone doesn’t have an effect, well then it just must have been their own fault because they couldn’t concentrate enough, etc, etc. A skilled scam artist can’t ever lose. There’s an answer for everything. And of course, because these methods are not vetted by science, there’s no actual data to quantify any effect that hypothetically could exist? There are no clinically blinded studies of tens of thousands of people to determine if any effect truly exists or if it does, what percentage show an effect.
Similarly, there’s never been a single alleged psychic who has demonstrated their abilities under proper scientific controls. And in the few willing to actually try, all of a sudden, their powers conveniently fail them even though the “psychic” never seems to have any problems when they’re not being closely monitored. And individuals like Katz are known scammers. There’s a website called Stop Katz that specifically exposes her fraud. And there are a number of books like James Randi’s “Flim Flam” that discuss the mentalism tricks that scammers use to trick people into thinking they have psychic powers. There’s nothing any alleged psychic can do that admitted non-psychic performers haven’t been able to replicate.
And as for getting your money back, that’s exactly the least Goldman can do to avoid going to federal prison for fraud; it’s certainly not some gracious gesture on his part that proves his product has merit. The fact is that as every huckster knows, few people will ever actually go through the effort to collect a refund and that the vast majority of customers will either deceive themselves into thinking their getting an effect and so won’t return the product, or will just not bother to take the time to return it.
I’m sorry but you seem to have an awful lot of beliefs that have no objective basis in reality. Have you ever heard anything that you didn’t believe ever? If not, you should buy my Skepacabra brand magic beans that will treat whatever ails ya by promoting the body’s natural healing.
Light is part of quantum physics. Light can be seen in the metaphysical realm of dreams. therefore Quantum Jumping must also be real because we can see light in our dreams.
Is this not scientific proof?
1. Dreams are not a metaphysical realm; they’re a process of a state of consciousness, which is related to neuroscience or more specifically, oneirology.
2. No light is being produced in dreams, nor is literal light being seen in dreams; what you’re experiencing are brainwaves interpreting thoughts into visual patterns during the state of REM sleep. During REM sleep, the release of the neurotransmitters norepinephrine, serotonin and histamine is completely suppressed. This is not light by any meaningful definition. So to answer your question, no, this is not scientific proof of jack shit. It’s stretching it to even call it coherent.
Yay I get to choose between two subjective narratives…mmm I’ll go with KB’s, because I like it better, haha!
I liked Quantum Jumping better the first time around when it was just called “The Secret”
OH MY GOD! SO MANY NEW AGEY RETARDS!
Wow, I CAN’T BELIEVE I READ THE WHOLE THING! First off, Mjr, a great original post, it opened up a spirited debate on all kinds of levels. Provocative.
My thoughts? I have leanings towards philosophical subjectivism from time to time, but QJ is absurd. Humanity’s potential for unwavering faith astounds me every day.
You treated Restless too roughly, I say. At first, he was making a strong, if not cogent argument, but after arguing with Octavian’s retarded 3rd world ass for ages, you kinda bit his dick off. As it turns out, he quickly devolved, but only because you kept the bunsen burner under his butt.
Listen though, this is important. You need to evaluate the arguments presented you with a little more charity. I’m not saying you need to “expand your mind, maaaaaan”, but mellow out a second, prepare a calm, yet inquisitive counterargument, and figure out WHY these people believe what they do. Then disprove them leisurely, disarming them with a smile. It’s easier for the whole logical process if you focus less on the fury of your refutations and instead provide counterexamples.
Oh yeah, and as for your ENTIRE BLOG THUS FAR- You’ve been judging inductive arguments (the existence of unobservable universes, parallel dimensions, quantum this-and that) by deductive standards. Instead of screaming “OMG YOU SUPERSTITIOUS SWINE” every time someone professes a belief, you could draw the more rational conclusion that, though possible, their hypotheses are extremely unlikely, even to the point of impossibility.
I’d love to hear from you. You have the gift of a reasoning mind. Just remember, reason is reasonable, yes? 🙂
Oh, and I want to go on record here. Kaku is BARELY a physicist. His little shock-and-awe infotainment on Sci-fi concepts doesn’t earn him the prestigious company of Einstein, Hawking, etc. He’s a publicizer, an entertainer. A theoretical physicist. I have bones to pick with that guy.
I have reviewed lots of comments during this conversation. Some I laughed at, some I cried at. I have one comment to make that I hope will not be perceived as an attack. The ladie or gentleman mjr256 makes it clear that a rigorous and empirical evaluation of the evidence is the only way to prove anything. What I disapprove of is the addition of the ad hominem attack included in almost every post. Magic beans, grow up, read the books, of course you have none, etc…. If you want to be taken seriously, please remove your obvious calls to illogical emotion during your arguments. It won’t feel as good as blasting the people you think cling to fantasy and (I statement here)I am frustrated when a clear and obvious symantic construction you make is derailed by specious name calling. G’day
“mjr256 makes it clear that a rigorous and empirical evaluation of the evidence is the only way to prove anything.”
Perhaps then I was not so clear. I’m saying empirical, falsifiable evidence is the only way to evaluate science and scientific claims. One is perfectly free to believe whatever they wish. For instance, if you want to believe that broccoli will come to life and start eating you, you’re welcome to believe that. Just don’t call that science. The makers of this fraudulent enterprise known as Quantum Jumping are calling their program “science,” when it does not meet even the minimum standards of that definition. They do this to lend credibility to what they’re selling. That is false advertising, and thus fraud because science requires a body of repeatably testable, empirical evidence that must survive a rigorous peer-review process to determine the merits of the particular claim. Quantum Jumping has failed to meet this criteria. Now that doesn’t on its own necessarily mean it isn’t real, but until it can be sufficiently proven to be true, it is unethical to sell Quantum Jumping as if it already was.
And if you’re going to object to the necessary standard of empirical evidence, I’d also like to know on what grounds you dismiss magic beans as a legitimate product?
I have not applied ad hominem attacks or name-called. And if you want to come back and actually present a real argument rather than apply the very same logical fallacy you accuse me of committing, I’m happy to address such arguments on their face. Up to you.
Heh…I’ve been here since the beginning, and gotten auto-emails containing every response herein.
I can finally say I understand MJR’s point of view.
“Now that doesn’t on its own necessarily mean it isn’t real, but until it can be sufficiently proven to be true, it is unethical to sell Quantum Jumping as if it already was. ”
That’s what did it. The admission it may work, but not happy that science is being used to sell it as if it were.
I think I was with you since the beginning on that. Ol’ Burt’s enterprising has gotten nothing but heavy criticism from my end.
If he is falsely misleading potential buyers through fanciful links to science and theoretical physicists, then he is a douche and a fraud.
+additionally adding, anyone who buys the program because of belief in the false advertising, is one as well.
Some people might suggest you get the torrent.
mjr256 you are right about Quantum Jumping, the program is no science and the author, who is not a scientist, should be ashamed for misleading us just to make a buck. What about Hawking with his book about Multiverse, what is his excuse? How can we talk about Multiverse when we really do not know how big our Universe is, and where our Galaxy is located in the Universe? Are we closer to the “bubble’s membrain” or to the center of the Universe? We really know next to nothing about the Dark and Energy Matter in order to use their characteristics for the Multiverse Theory (I am talking about the property of gravity)! I don’t care if a spiritual person or a scientist try to make a buck selling his book or meditation program as long as they do not misinform me, and make a foul out of me.
More interesting would be to have a discussion at a basic level on just why Quantum Jumping is a load of tosh!
Say you do have an infinite “You’s” out there, at every moment in time every constituent of every atom of the infinite “You’s” are spitting into new universes….
Just say you could commmunicate with other universes. How do you get to communicate with another “You” at all??
The “many you’s” analogy was devised to make the concept of the many world theory of quantum events of sub atomic particles perhaps easier to understand but it has created a complete confusion and this website has stepped right in on the hype to cash in.
However, I am inspired…. to watch online videos from Caltech and other places to better my knowledge of such things and our concepts about it. I will hop universes, in my imagination of course, nothing wrong with that…
When dealing with pseudosciences that have at least some level of plausibility, I’d agree with you that a more in depth analysis might be called for. But this has no greater plausibility than Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny. And I feel that treated it as if it were any less ridiculous would only give it unwarranted respect while disrespecting the intelligence of my readers. It is in fact not science and is in fact a fraud if they have not proven their claims to the scientific community prior to selling their wares. And none of the scientists they cite to justify their claims support anything even resembling Quantum Jumping.
Even if we did grant the multi-verse hypothesis, which obviously has been at least postulated by legitimate theoretical physicists, that does not even come close to validating the notion that one could communicate with some alternative version of themselves. That’s a claim far too over the top to accept even as a hypothetical.
To verify the Multiverse Theory we have to go outside the Universe and check it out… and that is impossible. Quantum Jumping and the Grand Design…are “designed” to get your money… the last one is designed to take your money with the approval of the theoretical physicists. Yeah, two bubble Universes ran into each other and from the Divine Collision was born our Universe. OMG, Hawking was talking about Cosmic Copulation, and the umbilical cord, you know the so-called white hole… yeah, Playboy wants to re-publish his book.
mjr…strange way to start by saying no one is 100% satisfied with their life. Many people are. Burt is selling his collection of techniques that have helped himself and many other people. To sit here and call it BS is as pointless as to call religion or science BS. We truly know very little and to rule anything 100% impossible is, in my opinion, bizarre.
I don’t judge con artists by whether or not they make their victims feel happy while they’re being ripped off; I judge them by whether they can actually do what they say they can do. And in this case, Burt in fact cannot do what he claims. He is making a scientific claim that has zero validity and is profiting off of it.
As I’ve explained before, one is perfectly free to believe whatever they wish. For instance, if you want to believe that broccoli will come to life and start eating you, you’re welcome to believe that. Just don’t call that science. The makers of this fraudulent enterprise known as Quantum Jumping are calling their program “science,” when it does not meet even the minimum standards of that definition. They do this to lend credibility to what they’re selling. That is false advertising, and thus fraud because science requires a body of repeatably testable, empirical evidence that must survive a rigorous peer-review process to determine the merits of the particular claim. Quantum Jumping has failed to meet this criteria. Now that doesn’t on its own necessarily mean it isn’t real, but until it can be sufficiently proven to be true, it is unethical to sell Quantum Jumping as if it already was.
You see the main problem with your anger over Burt and his “con” is that he offers a full refund if you find no benefit in what he offers. He is very straight forward with what the program is focused on doing and how it helped him. Cons do not give money back to people so easily. I suggest you focus your energy on a more worthy cause.
On the contrary, most successful con artists do offer the promise of refunds for dissatisfied customers. With all due respect, I don’t think you have any expertise on the matter. The best con is one where the mark walks away feeling like they got what they want. That’s how cons work. Take, for instance, John Edward. Typically, his victims walk away happy believing that he’d communicated with their dead loved ones who conveniently always have nothing but pleasant things to say. But that doesn’t change the fact that John Edward in fact cannot actually do what he claims he can do. Scientologists too are told that they can get refunds, though Paul Haggis is still waiting for his, as are almost all former Scientologists.
It’s a manipulation. The word “con” comes from the word “confidence.” The illusion of accountability is one of the most important aspects of gaining the confidence of a mark. It’s also one of the easiest to achieve. Con artists, like magicians, exploit well-known cognitive blind spots to fool people.
Now as I said before, I don’t care if Burt’s victims don’t realize they’re being scammed and so walk away feeling satisfied. I judge Burt by whether he can actually do what he says he can do. He can’t. Despite his claims, there is no quantum physics in what he claims. There’s not even any science in what claims as he cannot demonstrate his claims under proper scientific protocols that would rule out cheating and cognitive biases. And the James Randi Educational Foundation will happily pay him a million dollars if he can prove Quantum Jumping works.
And so while I appreciate your suggestion, as disingenuous as it may be, I consider such fraudulent actions that exploit public ignorance of science to bilk people out of their money a very worthy cause and I will continue to expose folks like Burt for the dishonest frauds that they are. And if Burt doesn’t like it, he can try suing me for libel.
Here is a spiritual secret beyond measure: the world we live in, the one we see, taste, hear, and touch, is a mere shadow of unseen worlds that belong to a higher order of reality.
All great saints and true seers point to the existence of these higher worlds as the home of divine forces and that within them exist possibilities far surpassing any of those we can experience on earth. These are supernatural worlds, and as a human being, you are meant to discover and enter into a conscious relationship with these higher worlds beyond all limitation. As you realize their immense energy and intelligence as your own, you begin effortlessly to attract all your heart has ever longed for.
Peace, love, and creative excellence become your intimate friends, instead of occasional visitors. The secrets of the universe unfold before your inner eyes. And even though many people doubt the existence of such supernatural worlds, not to mention the possibility of a supernatural self that knows their reality, the way to such wonders as these is closer than you might think. Access is not reserved for religious saints and mountain-top hermits. Anyone who longs to be a better, brighter, and truer person
can awaken to realize the supernatural self.
We are not alone in our quest for this new and inspired order of life. The Great Ones, past and present,give us clues along the way. They have passed down a special knowledge by which we can learn to use the hidden laws of life to turn every moment to our soul’s advantage. Make this knowledge your own and you will no longer fear any loss or change in circumstances. All forms of self-compromise will become a thing of the past. You will be wiser in your relationships, grow more efficient and effective in business, and find more and more of your moments fulfilled as if by magic
Prove it. You make a bunch of assertions and back up none of them with any evidence. Nor do you provide any credentials that would explain your access to special knowledge the rest of us are not privy to. Anyone can play this game of just saying any touchy-feely new agey nonsense and declaring it true by fiat alone. Do you believe what you believe for actual good reasons or just because you want it to be true? What is your evidence that it is true? How have you tested this belief to verify that it is true? What would be required to convince you that is not true? These are just a some questions you should consider.
mjr i hope you find peace within yourself.
Found that long ago. It’s the crooks and liars I’m at war with. And if you care about the well being of other people, you’d be at war with them too.
Burt’s program has helped me a lot and so I really can’t see him as a crook. I am a successful full-time worker, full-time student and I do a lot of charity work at home and overseas. I am no victim of a scam.
Can I ask how old you are? Not making judgement just wondering.
Scam victims are rarely aware that they’re being scammed. Again, Whether you personally feel helped in some way by the QJ program is irrelevant to my criticism, which is that QJ doesn’t actually do what Burt says it does, in fact can’t do what Burt says it does, and is being sold to the public even though it has not been properly evaluated by any scientific body who can vouch for its legitimacy.
It’s like if I were to sell you magic beans that will solve whatever problems you think you have. You might ask, who says these beans do that. And then I say, well, I do. Well that’s all well and good but I’m the one who most benefits from people believing the beans have magical properties, so I’m not the most reliable authority on the subject. That would be a conflict of interest.
Now what if I were to say the beans make it possible to fly? You might say that’s very easy to disprove and you’ll be taking advantage of my refund policy very quickly, right? Tell that to the thousands of followers of Maharishi Mahesh Yogi and the Transcendental Meditation Organization, who have been so manipulated that they will actually honestly swear that they really can fly.
http://www.behind-the-tm-facade.org/Transcendental_Meditation-myths.htm
These people are neither crazy nor deliberately lying. They really believe that TM gives them supernatural powers like flying and truly believe TM has profoundly helped their lives. Now it may even be that in some ways, TM has helped them, though I’d argue that far better alternatives exist that are both cheaper and that don’t come with a quasi-cult ideology built around the false belief that they have supernatural powers.
The truth is, like Scientology, the things QJ claims it can fix are so vague and generic as to apply to everyone. This is what’s known as the Barnum Effect http://www.paranormality.com/barnum_effect.shtml. So one can argue that they’re hardly legitimate problems in the first place. Further, testimonials are a favorite tactic of quacks as they are incredibly easy to obtain.
Now I’m perfectly open to being convinced that QJ can defy the laws of physics should it survive the scrutiny of scientific inquiry and peer-review, the bear minimum standard I require. Though Burt doesn’t seem to have any interest in putting it to any such test, which is itself a red flag.
Hi,
MJR256 its a tough battle and i’m glad that you are keeping it up.
I think we need more reviews and comments on these type of products to provide prospectives and possible warnings.
They can be very alluring.
I just listened to the first track on this. I would be very upset if I paid $100 for the program. This guy sounds a lot more like a scam artist than a psychonaut. I mean, he actually stammers and has to correct himself multiple times on the first CD. If you are going to sell your product as the most amazing thing of all time and charge someone $100 to use it, why not put a little bit of polish on the recordings? Is it really that difficult to re-read your script?
Also, he casually throws out the names of scientists that he claims support his notion when they don’t. You will be hard pressed to find a quantum “scientist” that will say that we have doppelgangers living out lives in parallel universes that we can go and communicate with.
All of this being said, the program itself may work. I don’t doubt that you can have these types of experiences in Astral Projection or Lucid Dreaming. This just seems to help you with the creative process. And if someone believes that this product will help them achieve it, then it is bound to have some measure of success.
I’ll continue to try this but right now, just listening to the guys voice makes it very difficult to concentrate. I honestly feel like I am being scammed and I didn’t even spend any money.
FWIW, I have found that “The Gateway Experience” by Robert Monroe to be a much better method. Robert Monroe has written books on Astral Projection and my own personal “scam detector” doesn’t go off the charts with him. If you are bored and looking for something different, give it a shot. It also costs money but can be found in the same manner as anything else these days.
Wow. This thread is a perfect example of the rigidity of critical thinking. But my thought is that nobody can ever “prove” that there are quantum universes or a doppelgänger of one person in infinite number of universes. Iam a little bit naive about the scientific stuff , but my guess is that no one invented any instrument to see past our nearest galaxy. Even if people does see past our nearest galaxies it is impossible(in my opinion) to see our own doppelgänger in that particular universe.
One point I would like to say is why so rigid with your thinking? Why reject something only on the claims it makes and not even have a “open minded” attitude towards trying out things?(now don’t give the “your brain falls out” reply to this like you did to one comment here :).. lol) Why not adopt “You
will see it until you believe it” attitude and NOT the other way around? Critical thinking is very important for a brain surgery but having that attitude(“You will see it until you believe it” ) for improving ourselves is not going to kill anyone, doesn’t it?
While they do make claims that can be called as ridiculous,I do understand that they make these
claims to sell their product.But I see Quantum Jumping as a visualization tool that helps to increase one’s value.Yeah, you can believe that there are doppelgänger of ourselves in the infinite universes like many people or you can use it by adopting an “as if” mentality like I did.(like How would it be like f my twin self does this thing in another universe?..etc)
Why don’t you try Quantum jumping and write us an article about your experience? They have money back guarantee so there is no risk.
Reality tends to be very rigid and one-sided as it relies solely on what is actually true. As I’ve said numerous times on this thread, I have a big problem with fraudsters who exploit people’s scientific ignorance to make a buck. And that’s what QJ is. If someone wants to believe in ridiculous things, that’s their right. But when someone starts selling a product based on that nonsense, it crosses over into fraud, which is a crime. Open-mindedness doesn’t mean turning a blind eye while people are being ripped off by a crook.
And mis-educating the public about science can lead to an erosion of critical thinking skills that in turn can indeed kill people. For instance, the “seeing is believing” attitude you’re so fond of has led many parents to incorrectly believe vaccines are dangerous and that homeopathy is a legitimate medical treatment. These are just two examples of where faulty reasoning like “seeing is believing” can and does lead to human suffering and death. The more accurate aphorism is “believing is seeing.” If one believes something enough, they’ll find more and more ways to justify that belief.
As for why I don’t try it myself, I’ll tell you what. If Bert gives it to me for free, I’ll review it. I will not however pay him one red cent for a product that claims to perform a service that is quite literally IMPOSSIBLE. As for money back guarantees, that’s a scam. The word “con” comes from “confidence” and that’s where the money back guarantee comes in. Scams like this make customers go through so many hoops to get the refund that most give up. I’ve encountered these scams many times. This is not new. It’s a classic right out of the hucksters handbook, and I’m not going to waste entirely unnecessary time and money on a product that has no scientific credibility whatsoever.
Skepticism is dogmatism. It’s doubting something else because it doesn’t align with your personal truths. It is literally saying “I don’t believe in X because I believe in Y.”This is one reason I can’t trust skeptics, ever. You people don’t trust yourselves or others, and these put forward a false front. You are charlatans, in your mind and in your lives. I don’t think I’ve ever seen one truly happy skeptic, ever. That doubt creeps through their lives spreading fear, pride and resentment. They can’t just relax because they are on edge, ready to defend all attacks on their beliefs, both real and imagined threats, mostly imagined.
In the end, skeptics can’t be dealt with. They are so stubborn and insistent. If you try and tell them your view, they argue with it, or demand proof. If you ask them to prove their own view they get upset and start spouting off nonsensical words like “burden of proof” and “reasonable doubt”. No one has to prove anything, there’s no law saying you need to prove what you know to a complete stranger. It would get silly if everything you did required some burden of proof. Every time you buy bread “Prove to me that this bread really is made of flour! I don’t believe it is!” Every time you fill up with gas “Prove to me how the four stroke engine works! I don’t believe that cars work this way!” Burden of proof and reasonable doubt are legal terms for court cases, not for inquiries into the human experience.
Skeptics doubt everything except their own beliefs, and that’s the first thing that should be doubted. It’s a wonderful and complex universe out there, no one really knows what is and what is not possible. Being open to the possibilities and being curious is the path to truth, not skepticism and doubt.
Well, no. What you’re describing is denialism. I’m also not talking about “philosophical skepticism,” the idea that it’s impossible to know whether we actually know the things that we know.
Scientific skepticism is the exact opposite of dogmatism; it means specifically aligning one’s beliefs with the best available evidence. And the mission of Skeptical activism is simply to further the role of reason and evidence in our society.
To quote Steven Novella:
“A skeptic is one who prefers beliefs and conclusions that are reliable and valid to ones that are comforting or convenient, and therefore rigorously and openly applies the methods of science and reason to all empirical claims, especially their own. A skeptic provisionally proportions acceptance of any claim to valid logic and a fair and thorough assessment of available evidence, and studies the pitfalls of human reason and the mechanisms of deception so as to avoid being deceived by others or themselves. Skepticism values method over any particular conclusion.”
As I’ve said repeatedly in this comment thread, if you can present sufficient empirical evidence for a claim and it survives the peer review of experts in the relevant fields, I will happily change my mind and admit I was wrong. See, I don’t have any problem admitting when I’m wrong. I was wrong before and I’ll be wrong again. What separates me from a dogmatist is that I can admit when I’m wrong and change my mind when presented with new evidence. That’s called critical thinking.
On the contrary, if these ad hominem attacks on my character and straw men arguments against a position I do not actually hold are any indication, it seems like it’s YOU who cannot tolerate differences in opinion, not me. If I appear stubborn, it’s because I haven’t been given sufficient reason to change my mind, not that I’m unwilling to change my mind even when presented with a good reason to do so.
The one thing you said that does hold some legitimacy is you said I don’t trust myself or others. To that accusation, I say guilty as charged. As a student of human psychology, I recognize the flaws of human perception and the mechanisms of deception so as to avoid being deceived by others or even myself. Again, as Novella said in the quote posted above, “skepticism values method over any particular conclusion.”
If you haven’t studied logic maybe you should better educate yourself before concluding that terms like “burden of proof” are “nonsensical.” Burden of proof is a well established law of basic logic and it’s recognized in just about every court room in the world for a very good reason. If you don’t think it applies outside of a courtroom, why doesn’t it?
As for no one needing to prove anything, if they are charging money for a service, then they very well better be able to prove they can indeed perform that service or else this is a crime known as fraud. Your bread analogy is a false one in that the existence of bread is not an extraordinary claim. But yes, if someone on the street promises that if you pay them now, they will mail you a loaf of bread, you have sufficient reason to be skeptical that you will get your bread. Pretending that there’s no distinction in plausibility between any claim is utterly absurd. If I said I went to Starbucks yesterday, I might be lying or confusing one day with another, but you have no reason to doubt that claim because it’s rather unremarkable. Whereas if I said I was abducted by space aliens yesterday and they let me fly their flying saucer around the Earth, given the extraordinary nature of the claim, you’d have good reason to suspect that I was either lying or delusional. At that point, it would be quite reasonable for you to demand evidence. And if instead, I came up with a host of excuses, while that wouldn’t prove my experience didn’t happen, you’d have good reason to not believe it. And the responsibility would not be yours to prove it didn’t happen but rather, it’d be on me to prove I did fly a alien ship. Your car analogy actually works against you because we understand exactly how cars work. If I believed they worked by magic and someone wanted to convince me that it was actually scientific principles at work, I can read books and learn precisely how a car works. But because cars are anything but extraordinary in our modern world and I at least have a vague understanding of how they work, I have no reason to doubt “every time I fill up with gas.” You on the other hand seem to prefer to believe in magic rather than educate yourself about how the world really works. And you’re free to do so. Just like I’m free to ridicule you for your fuzzy, superstitious thinking.
But since you are such a critic of close-mindedness, tell me, what would change YOUR mind?
From my viewpoint a skeptic is someone whose awareness is too constricted to have psychic experiences, just as some people’s color-deficient eyes are too limited to detect purple. In general I think skeptics are too fearful of what would become of their lives if they started having psychic experiences, so they tune them out like an ostrich with its head in the sand.
And about that million dollar challenge,It’s an experience, not a test. Of course if you’re coming from an objective reality mindset, then for you it is a test, but that mindset will only corrupt your results on the experiential side. If I were starting the MDE today, I would name it the Million Dollar Experience instead. My personal intention for the MDE isn’t to test whether or not I can manifest a million dollars. My intention is to experience the unfolding manifestation. Why? Because it’s a fun, rewarding, and enriching experience.
Ultimately skepticism is rooted in fear. Fear of making a mistake. Fear of being gullible. Fear of living foolishly. From a subjective reality standpoint, skepticism is a mental adaptation that occurs after you’ve made the choice to live in a fear-based objective universe. Once you’ve objectified your universe, skepticism is the next step.
Unfortunately, testing for subjectivity is an oxymoron. You can’t actually test for a subjective universe. The whole idea of testing implies doubt, and doubt will corrupt the test if the universe really is subjective.
If our beliefs are just a self-fulfilling prophecy, then the prophecy of skepticism is a lame one to fulfill. All you manifest is evidence that causes you to continue doubting. It would be hard to manifest a more boring reality than that.
Once objectivity has been chosen, a skeptic will regard a non-skeptic as reckless, foolhardy, gullible, or misguided. From the emails I’ve received, I can see it really bothers some skeptics that I don’t believe in an objective universe, yet I’m still able to function just fine in the world (probably better than most skeptics in fact). I would think that if I believed in a subjective universe, and the universe was really objective, then my ability to function should decrease. But from any measurable standpoint, the opposite occurred when I adopted a subjective mindset.
As I previously noted though, if you take skepticism far enough, it eventually leads you to question the nature of reality, and that’s where it finally self-destructs. Most skeptics don’t go nearly this far, however.
If we live in a subjective reality, then you’re free to manifest whatever the heck you want. If you spend a lot of time observing external reality, then you’re intending continuity. You’ll simply manifest more of the same. However, if you imagine something totally different, then you’ll manifest a discontinuity now and then. Your experience of reality will twist and turn in exciting new ways.
A skeptic is concerned about the probabilities of success vs. failure in any endeavor. For example, before a skeptic starts his/her own business, lots of questions must be answered to alleviate fear and doubt. How well are other people doing in this industry? Do I have enough money? How will I support myself? What if it doesn’t work? Am I good enough? What are my chances of success?
A non-skeptic doesn’t see life this way at all. If such a person were to start his/her own business, it would be with an experiential attitude. There wouldn’t be so much attachment to specific outcomes. When I started my personal development business, I didn’t ask all these skeptical questions because I wasn’t thinking in terms of success vs. failure. I just wanted to experience its unfolding. It made no difference what level of success others were having. I was simply going to dive in and experience it in my own unique way. With such an attitude, there’s no success or failure. There’s only the unfolding experience.
When you seek to experience life instead of doubting and fearing it, joy becomes your natural state of being. It doesn’t matter what outcome you get because your attitude is always, “What a fascinating experience!”
And from my viewpoint, that’s a very, very convenient excuse to try to dodge one’s burden of proof for a rather extraordinary claim. If you can’t provide a good reason for someone to believe in something, then why expect them to believe it? Or perhaps more importantly, why believe it yourself? Your color blind analogy doesn’t hold any water because of course that is a sufficiently provable physical phenomenon. Science doesn’t just take people’s word for it; we understand its actually physiological causes.
“In general I think skeptics are too fearful of what would become of their lives if they started having psychic experiences, so they tune them out like an ostrich with its head in the sand.”
I’m sorry you can’t fathom any other possibility for why people might disagree with you other than it must be their own biases even though you refuse to provide sufficient evidence for your beliefs. Just because you have no standard of evidence beyond appealing to the mere popularity of a belief and anecdotes, but I think you’re highly underestimating the flaws in human perception. I recommend reading some psychology books on the subject of perception. I think you’d be shocked to learn how distorted people’s memories can be of even a very recent experience.
“And about that million dollar challenge,It’s an experience, not a test.”
No, it’s a test. Both parties consent to a fair and appropriate, quantifiable protocol, and then the person either does what they say they can do or they fail. Pass or fail. It’s that simple. Why people whose claims suggest they could easily win the challenge are so determined to discredit it without even trying it is beyond me. It’s almost like you don’t want the million or are afraid the money will eat you.
“Of course if you’re coming from an objective reality mindset, then for you it is a test, but that mindset will only corrupt your results on the experiential side.”
How’s that exactly? It seems to me that you just refuse to embrace an actual falsifiable position out of your own fears that your beliefs might be proven wrong. As long as it remains unfalsifiable and “mysterious”, you never actually have to have your beliefs challenged. In that case, why not just say the magical powers come from Santa Claus and call it a day?
“Ultimately skepticism is rooted in fear.”
No, it’s quite explicitly rooted in scientific methodology, reason, and the honest pursuit of truth. It’s just that those who’d rather just believe in magic because they find it comforting wish to project their own insecurities onto those who have the audacity to tell them to put their money where their mouth is or, to borrow another cliche, to put up or shut up.
“Fear of making a mistake.”
LOL. On the contrary, I have little trouble admitting to being wrong. I’ve been wrong before and I’ll be wrong again. For instance, I once believed in psychic powers. Then I realized I was wrong to believe in such nonsense as it was not sufficiently proven, and so I admitted I was wrong and changed my mind. Rather, it seems like it’s you who have trouble with admitted even the possibility that you’re wrong. So you make excuses that conveniently place your beliefs beyond that which is falsifiable and then shift the burden of proof. I’m not saying I absolutely know there are no psychic powers; all I’m saying is I’ve not been sufficiently convinced that there are while you’re too cowardly to even begin to make an honest case.
“Fear of being gullible. Fear of living foolishly. ”
Nope, but I can say with some degree of confidence that this never crosses your mind. You seem to have no problem with being gullible and living foolishly.
“From a subjective reality standpoint, skepticism is a mental adaptation that occurs after you’ve made the choice to live in a fear-based objective universe.”
From objective reality, skepticism is methodological naturalism plus logical inference. You’re really are fixated on this whole fear thing, aren’t you? I’d ask you to explain how you arrived at this notion but you obviously don’t feel you need to base your beliefs on good reasons (or any reasons), so what’s the point?
“Once you’ve objectified your universe, skepticism is the next step.”
Reality is not a subjective opinion, but if you disagree, feel free to hop out the nearest 30-story window and prove me wrong.
“Unfortunately, testing for subjectivity is an oxymoron. You can’t actually test for a subjective universe. ”
No, it’s just testing a moron. So are you claiming psychic powers are literally real or just someone’s baseless, subjective opinion? Which is it? You can’t have it both ways. Or is it that you just don’t understand what the word subject means?
“The whole idea of testing implies doubt”
[facepalm] Let me ask you a question. Suppose you’re a math teacher. You need to assess how well your students understand the material. You can’t in any way test their knowledge of the material because that automatically assumes they don’t know the material. So you begin to ask them to just write down the information as they understand it but then you realize that this too is a form of test and implies they don’t know the material. So what method do you use to determine if the students indeed understand the material without any implications that they don’t know it?
“If our beliefs are just a self-fulfilling prophecy, then the prophecy of skepticism is a lame one to fulfill.”
No, YOUR beliefs are a self-fulfilling prophecy; I’m actually trying to test claims to determine what’s true and what isn’t. YOU’RE the one who rejects anything that even hints at less than 100% commitment to your beliefs.
“All you manifest is evidence that causes you to continue doubting.”
Um, I don’t think you know what evidnece means.
“It would be hard to manifest a more boring reality than that.”
I don’t know about that. You’re doing a superb job of boring me.
“Once objectivity has been chosen, a skeptic will regard a non-skeptic as reckless, foolhardy, gullible, or misguided.’
But then again that’s just your subjective opinion about subjective things happening in a subjective universe, so who gives a shit?
“From the emails I’ve received, I can see it really bothers some skeptics that I don’t believe in an objective universe, yet I’m still able to function just fine in the world (probably better than most skeptics in fact).”
No, we just pity you. And the reason you function in the world is that you live your life as if it were objective. As I asked before, why not hop out a 30-story window? If it’s all just subjective, and there are no objective consequences, what’s the difference? Or why not slice open your own eye or only enter rooms by walking through walls? Why lock your doors at night? Why look both ways before crossing the street? Why see a doctor when your sick? It’s all just subjective anyway, right?
“As I previously noted though, if you take skepticism far enough, it eventually leads you to question the nature of reality, and that’s where it finally self-destructs. Most skeptics don’t go nearly this far, however.”
There’s no such thing as taking skepticism too far. That’s a Straw Vulcan argument. What you describe is philosophical skepticism. This is a completely different thing as scientific skepticism, which simply means applying methodological naturalism and making logical inferences. If someone “takes it too far”, then their methodology is flawed, which by definition, precludes them from the category of scientific skeptic. It’s like arguing that a person is being too reasonable. There’s simply no such thing.
“If we live in a subjective reality, then you’re free to manifest whatever the heck you want.”
Didn’t work. You’re still here.
“A skeptic is concerned about the probabilities of success vs. failure in any endeavor.”
Is that what a skeptic is concerned with? Thanks for telling me. And to think, all this time, I thought we were concerned with determining what is true.
“For example, before a skeptic starts his/her own business, lots of questions must be answered to alleviate fear and doubt.”
Um, what? You lost me there, buddy.
“A non-skeptic doesn’t see life this way at all. If such a person were to start his/her own business, it would be with an experiential attitude.”
Yeah, you’re real mavericks. You betcha! You don’t read books or listen to those factinistas, those fact-nazis. You go with your guts and follow you own sense of truthiness. You go, boy!
“When I started my personal development business…”
Wow. Just wow.
“When you seek to experience life instead of doubting and fearing it, joy becomes your natural state of being.”
Tell that to Anne Frank.
“It doesn’t matter what outcome you get because your attitude is always, ‘What a fascinating experience!'”
For someone so joyful, you seem awfully pissed off at those who don’t share your opinions. And if being so joyful means being an asshole, I prefer this imaginary miserable state you’ve concocted for me.
As a science-fiction writer who is poorly trained in the hard sciences, I can attest that adding “quantum” to anything makes it sound no less than 300% more fun. It’s my favorite sci-fi buzzword, just barely beating out “electromagnetic” and “neural”. And jetpacks.
But really, it’s too bad so many posters here seem to believe that being a skeptic is such a miserable or hateful way to live. Some of the emotional appeals I see in these comments remind me exactly why skepticism is so important: it keeps speculation and wishful thinking from tripping up actual scientific progress.
You guys don’t do quantum jumping? Wow; you’re missing out. I do it all the time.
I’ll help you out here: for the low, low price of $1000 USD I’ll let you in on the secret, so you too can enjoy this fantastic, too good to believe, secret to happiness.
Just PM me and I’ll tell you where to send the money, and this secret will be yours too.
Okay, I’ll give it to you for nothing, but don’t tell anyone else about this, or I won’t make any money:
STEP 1: Look at a photo of yourself from several years ago.
STEP 2: Imagine that younger person giving you some advise.
STEP 3. Follow that advise very carefully.
STEP 4: Congratulate yourself, because you just met with yourself in a parallel reality.
STEP 5: Send me a Thank you note, because I just saved you a lot of money!
I apologize, I need to go to bed. This is what happens when I stay up too late. Goodnight.
Interesting discussion.
As a newcomer I found this to be a fascinating thread that evolved into a variety of topics and had insightful comments from several people here and of course from mjr256.
I thought my contribution to the topic might be somewhat appropriate as I’ve been in the “Skeptic” camp quite some time.Though I never did the Quantum Jumping course, I’ve done active scientific research in parapsychology and human consciousness for the last several years.
My own personal experience as a skeptic taught me that if you really want to be a scientist or honest researcher, you have to go where the data takes you. Scientists are supposed to be skeptical of their own work and others, that is what peer reviewed papers are all about. However, our memeplexes or paradigms get into the way of how we interrupt the results. There is a strong prejudice in the scientific community for anything that rocks the scientific Weltanschauung (comprehensive view of reality) and it is an uphill struggle to change the tide of the masses.
In my own case, my formal training is in geophysics but for a few years I worked with a team of world specialists in Chronobiology where I learned that using robust scientific computational analysis could provide evidence for or against unusual phenomena. That is if the experimental study was setup and performed to protocol. I honestly felt pretty confident that (at the time) I could solve any mystery if there was enough evidence to work with.
Some years later, this worldview came crashing down on top of me from a personal experience where I gained temporary and completely unexpected powers of macro PSI. While this only lasted for a few days, I was absolutely astonished I had this ability.
While my ability quickly faded, I was able to objectively test my PSI abilities in a real life situation (at nearby Casino’s) and won a $10,000 jackpot playing slot machines in less than 10 minutes. I unexpectedly won another $10,000 a few months after this playing another slot machine.
While the subjective experience of the events totally changed my materialistic worldview, I discovered when I set out to “prove” my ability scientifically, that there have been hundreds of studies done in all parts of the world showing that PSI ability is demonstrable in mathematical proofs. In fact, the evidence for PSI based upon the weight of the many studies that have been done for decades is so strong, it matches the quality of just about any quality medical study.
While the evidence is there, the conclusions to the scientific community and public are not palatable. It is nearly impossible for any reputable science working for any established institution to get funding for research. Further, even if the researcher uses their own funds, the investigator risks scientific backlash from his or her peers. Those brave scientists who still press ahead are labeled nutcases or quacks by the scientific community for the most part.
In fact, the only way current and future studies into parapsychology continue is by burying the discovered data in another study. For example, space science studies show that geomagnetic storms literally change the brainwave patterns of astronauts and people on the surface. Those same studies show side effects that strongly influence parapsychological abilities.
The evidence for paranormal abilities is quite massive if you know where to look, know how to evaluate research studies, and have the time to look through thousands of papers. Alternatively, you can do your own research and you will likely find out that you have at least what is known as micro PSI ability. In other words, with a little practice, you can change displayed pictures on your computer screen by will and test your ESP ability objectively on many website tests.
Belief is just something that gets in your way of living your life open to possibilities. Don’t close your mind to the universe. Put a little effort into finding out why the universe is much weirder than you can ever imagine.
SpAd
Why waste your time at the casino winning a measly $10,000? The James Randi Educational Foundation will happily give you a cool million in probably much shorter time if you only repeat a demonstration of your magic powers under quantitative test conditions? And the Nobel Committee will pay even more.
mjr256, do you still believe that Randi is going to give $1 million to those who prove their abilities??Its all a publicity stunt to feed his ego and a tool to attack his perceived enemies. Since he controls the test, he can always prevent a winner.
http://www.psipog.net/art-beware-pseudo-skepticism.html
Once an appropriate protocol is agreed upon by both parties, both parties sign a legally binding document. So should the applicant satisfy their end of the contract, the foundation is legally required to give them the money. Therefore, your publicity stunt excuse doesn’t hold much water. And as I just explained–and is quite clearly laid out on the challenge’s webpage, he (nor the foundation) in fact do not control the test as both parties must consent to the protocol before proceeding. But even if you suspected it was rigged, that hardly would seem like a sufficient criteria to not bother trying given that a million dollars is on the table. Methinks the lady doth protest too much.
“To date, nobody has demonstrated the existence of a “metaphysical world.””.
Um, I think what you mean is that nobody has demonstrated the existence of a “metaphysical world” in rational terms.
Which is a kind of non-sequitur. If you’ll only accept proof of the non-physical in physical terms, well, hey, you can claim virtue ad nauseum.
Manifestly, for you everything (a la Johnson) is refuted thus. But, alas, the discussion is taking place in a dimension you refuse to acknowledge.
In short: you and those whom you designate charlatans and worse are speaking different langauges.
Carry on by all means, but really, isn’t this stuff a bit too easy? Shouldn’t a scientist actually be investigating rather than just denigrating? Or need I only fly the flag of science to get a free pass?(Certainty = hubris way down the line.)
There are no other reliable terms for understanding the universe but rational terms, so I fail to understand your distinction. You seem to arguing for belief for belief’s sake, and inventing a thin justification for why that should be laudable. But believing in things for no good reason is not a virtue.
As I’ve said repeatedly (despite that it should go without needing to be said at all), I’m not claiming the universe must operate according to my personal perceptions. All I’m saying is that if what you believe cannot be observed or demonstrated with empirical evidence in any meaningful way, why then should you believe it? And even more to the point, why should I be persuaded to believe it too? All I advocate for–indeed all I’ve ever advocated for–is basing one’s level of certainty in a proposition on the amount of empirical evidence for said proposition. It’s not remotely an unreasonable position, nor does it imply in any way that one ought to have absolutely certain in their beliefs. That is a contemptible straw man.
And if you disagree that claims should be proportional to the evidence, then there’s a bridge in Brooklyn I’d like to sell you as well as some magic beans.
If you don’t believe in the necessity of evidence and science to validate a position, prove it.
QUOTE:
“Of course the person reading the website isn’t 100% satisfied with their life. NO ONE IS. And no matter what these hustlers claim, nothing they do will make you 100% satisfied with your life. Human beings are incapable of being 100% satisfied. Even if everything was going right with your lif [sic], you’re a rich, famous, powerful, have the most beautiful spouse in the world who you love, have great kids, have loads of loving friends and family, etc–you’ll still find something missing in your life. It’s just human nature.”
With the action of debunking anything, as you’re taking on with debunking Burt Goldman, I believe you instantly become responsible for making certain your own claims are substantiated and able to be proven. A blanket statement such as offered here is absolutely subjective, telling me more about you and your life experience than offering an observation on physical reality. I accept that you perceive humans as being “incapable of being 100% satisfied” and have revealed a great deal about yourself personally as valuing the state of being “rich, famous, powerful, have the most beautiful spouse in the world who you love, have great kids, have loads of loving friends and family” as important to your sense of happiness. I stop short of accepting them as measures of all peoples’ experience of or requirements to be happy.
I also believe “Show me a beautiful woman and I’ll show you a man tired of fucking her.” is much more the statement of a person perceiving humans as objects whose value is in their physical appearance, possessing the power to make another person feel anything, one way or another, than illustrating a truth of existence. (I think it speaks for itself about your outlook on relationships, as well.)
There are people in my world who are capable of complete satisfaction. There are people in my world who take responsibility for their own states and don’t see you or anyone else as capable of making them “bored”.
I believe you don’t believe that. We each live our lives according to our beliefs.
If we’re telling stories to illustrate points, I offer this:
A man sitting beside the road was approached by a traveler.
“I just left a village of angry, hateful people willing to hurt you at every opportunity. Will the people in the next town be more kind?”
“No. I’m sorry.” said the man, “You’ll find people in the next town to be the same.”
Another travelers stops to chat.
“I just left the most kind and wonderful people in the last village. What will I find ahead?”
“No need to worry,” the man said. “You’ll find people in the next town to be the same.”
I didn’t make a scientific claim. I thought it went without saying that the statement was subjective as emotion itself is subjective. You seem to be looking for an excuse to pick a fight and score points. And if this is really the best you can come up with, not explicitly stating which sentences are statements of fact and which are opinions when it’s sufficiently implied, then I find it a shallow criticism.
As for your attempts to paint me as a shallow asshole based solely on a light-hearted example I used to make a larger point rather than address the actual main point I was making, that is not worth my time to argue. If every statement I wrote in my articles was intended were meant to be taken as absolutely seriously, I’d be a pretty boring writer. You seem to be looking for any excuse to attack my character in a sad attempt to make yourself feel superior, and I’m growing tired of such childishness. At least most of my other trolls come up with entertaining criticisms.
“There are people in my world who are capable of complete satisfaction.”
Okay, now you’re just being inconsistent. First you jumped all over me for expressing my opinion that 100% contentment is unattainable, insisting I have an obligation to scientifically prove it, and now you’re presenting the exact opposite opinion without explicitly calling it an opinion either. You can’t have it both ways.
All that being said, I still maintain the OPINION that the grass is always greener and it is a fundamental part of human nature to want things regardless of one’s present situation. That doesn’t necessarily have to mean wanting selfish, materialist things; it could be as simple as wanting an end to war or wanting no one to live in poverty. And I don’t expect to ever encounter someone who is completely without any desire or want of any kind. And if such a person does exist, I sure as hell don’t want to meet them.
I applaud your position with various commenter over here. Came here by accident and loved reading the arguments of both sides. Just a small point – when you say empirical evidence you mean the evidence stay same irrespective of the observer. This in turn is collected by empirical research.
And in any field – empirical research never proves anything – it can only support, reject or do nothing to a hypothesis. So asking for empirical evidence as a proof is not a solid backing because it is not a proof. You need to have proof with rational systems we have to explain things or to device such system in which to explain things which are based on previously proven facts/hypothesis.
Probably picking on just choice of words – bad on my part- and I do apologize.
And thank you for some very interesting time.
2 things: I’m pretty sure that the Quantum in Quantum Jump is referring to the Quantum Suicide thought experiment where a person in a vacuum of reality, wielding a pistol with a quantum particle armed bullet continually pulls the trigger. As long as the particle is spinning clockwise the gun won’t fire, however it it were to spin counter clockwise it would fire and you would be dead. Each pull of the trigger generates a ‘branch’ in reality where the opposite of the ‘real’ effect occured. Similar to Schrodinger’s Cat. And with this thought experiment, it can be deduced that each and every action we take during the day creates a ‘branch’ reality where a different set of circumstances and challenges were presented.
Secondly, Michio Kaku rarely speaks in absolutes as you do MJR. As a Theoretical Physicists, I’m pretty sure he knows that an absolute is only true until it is disproven. And while I agree with you that empirical evidence should be the cornerstone of any thing scientific; if Quantum Jumping were delivered more as a thought experiement as is prominent in Quantum and Theoretical Physics; would you be as defiant? Madness and brilliance are but a perceptions breadth apart.
Personally, I view it as nothing more than a shoddy package over thinly veiled self help junk & should not be delivered as fact with a basis in science. But if someone derives a meaningful improvement from it, then that would be its own evidence to a degree that it does function as its core components imply that it should. In this particular case, it would be a thought experiment in a pseudoscience. That makes my teeth itch for some reason.
As you correctly indicated, Quantum Suicide is a thought experiment. And like most thought experiments, it exists outside of any literal reality. It’s mostly just fun to think about. There is currently no professional quantum physicist doing any research even remotely resembling what Burt says he in fact can do for a fee. And there’s a good reason why; it’s complete pseudo-scientific bullshit with not an ounce of real science.
Regarding Michio Kaku, we play different roles in science. As a scientist, Kaku is restricted to falsifiable claims (which Burt does not provide), while as a mere science advocate, I’m held to no such strict standard when commenting on pseudoscience. Additionally, Kaku is a theoretical physicist who has also made a career out of inspiring audiences to look at science with awe and wonder while encouraging people’s imagination to dream of what might be possible. That being said, while he is well-known for such specials that look for real science in science fiction, in those specials, he absolutely does put his foot down on the truly impossible. He also, like Carl Sagan and Neil DeGrasse Tyson, has had lengthy public discussions about pseudoscience, such as here: http://www.michaelshermer.com/2006/09/shermer-kaku-pseudoscience/
I’m sorry but we don’t live in Never Never Land and some things simply are scientifically impossible, like Quantum Jumping. And as I’ve repeatedly said in this forum, if people want to just believe crazy superstitions, they’re welcome to it; it’s when people prey on others’ superstitions by charging money for services they cannot adequately demonstrate as legitimate where I draw the line. That constitutes as fraud, which is a crime. It’s not enough for a con artist to successfully get the mark walking away feeling satisfied; they must actually be capable of doing the precise service they’re selling or else it’s still fraud. For instance, suppose you were taken in by Bernard Madoff but died before he was ever exposed as a crook. If you never knew he was stealing your money and went to your grave still thinking he was successfully doing the job you hired him to do, would his actions still be considered a crime? Of course they would. And if I were to steal from you and you never noticed, that would still be a crime. The fact is that a crime is a crime regardless of the victim’s opinion.
Even scientifically impossible things are accomplished every day…I have myself done this through faith…
And faith is a system put in place by God.
Works every time. No science to it.
Nothing shall be impossible to them that believe but then believing is the problem…back to quantum jumping….
None of us are experts, but experience speaks louder than words…
And if you actually accomplish it under proper controlled conditions that rule out the possibility of cheating and fraud, science will happily revise its understanding and the James Randi Educational Foundation will give you a million bucks. Otherwise though, you’re just a nut insisting on special pleading to justify your silly beliefs.
So, who made Stephen Hawkins or you the expert…
Closed minded people like holds the advance of
people back…wake up your narrow mind and see
the light…
It takes intellect to understand and use this
quantum jumping…so I guess you are left out…
It’s not who, but what, and the answer is the laws of physics. As I’ve repeatedly said, I’m more than happy to admit being wrong when I’m wrong, but the only criteria is that you have to demonstrate that I’m wrong. And since nobody can demonstrate under proper controlled conditions that QJ works and yet its being sold as though it were proven, that’s fraud.
And by the way, you didn’t need the hat to look stupid…
You mean that’s not a picture of you? So what makes you the expert in looking stupid? Huh? Huh? See, anyone can play dumb; you don’t have the monopoly on it.
To MJR256,
I would like you to ask yourself two questions
What do you know?
What do you not know?
I believe, Sir, you are living out your ego/left brain and are overlooking true being.
Enjoyed comments made by Jay and restless
And I believe you’re desperate to cling to comforting nonsense no matter what and will seek out any excuse to attack the character of people who disagree with you rather than consider the possibility that maybe you’re wrong.
You don’t seem to have any reasonable mechanism on which to apply critical analysis to your beliefs or test their validity, and you seem to prefer it that way I surmise because if a belief is unfalsifiable, you think you never have to ever face admitting you’re wrong. Tell me. Can anything convince you that you’re wrong? What would do so?
I would also like to hear your thoughts on what you believe to be “literal reality” as you have previously menitoned……..
I’m not sure of the context in which I may have used that term but I’ll take a stab at it. Scientific claims require falsifiability. And if one is going to sell a service that they claim is scientific in nature, they better be prepared to point to legitimate, peer-reviewed studies published in reputable journals that demonstrate the phenomena has survived proper testing. Science is a method of observation for determining how the world actually works. It’s not perfect but it’s the best method we have. And if we discover a new, better method, that will become part of science too. But if one makes extraordinary scientific claims without going through the scientific process of determining if they’re actually true and having those claims vetted by other scientists in appropriate fields, then that’s a problem. One ought to have an actual good reason to believe something is true beyond merely wanting to believe it is true. In other words, one’s level of belief in a claim ought to be proportional to the amount of evidence for that claim. If it isn’t, one does not have a good reason to believe said belief is true until such time as it can be properly demonstrated to be true, and the default position is not believe it. I hope that clarifies my position and the position of science.
I was aiming to hihglight that: What cannot proved to be Real/True/Scientific fact, to me, also means some of the previously discussed, could be in the realm of possibility. I would like to stay open minded…
This is why I wanted to ask you, what do you actually know, and what is out there to find out. I would like to think that there is more to discover than the knowledge we hold to date, especially if you look at our current limited undertsanding of the reality we are supposedly living out.
Finally, I try not to think in terms of – true or false – right or wrong – beauty and ugliness
The above distinctions could be considered subjective and I feel that in this division we are creating the problematic world we live in. Division is destruction?
If we continue to build mental boundaries and erect mental fences around, what most consider to be outlandish beliefs, we can only play to the arhictecture we have built. And whether you believe in quantum jumping or not, this acrchitecture is starting to “stink”, but what did we expect?
I’m pretty sure we can rule out Santa Claus, leprechauns, and the Flying Spaghetti Monster. While one ought to be open-minded to alternative hypotheses, that doesn’t mean one should treat absolutely every unfalsifiable claim they’re presented with as if it’s a perfectly legitimate and respectable possibility. Beliefs ought to be proportional to the evidence and the degree of likeliness considered. The burden of proof is always on the claimant; that’s just a basic rule of logic. For instance, as I’ve said before on this forum, if I said I went to Starbucks yesterday, I might be lying or confusing one day with another, but you have no reason to doubt that claim because it’s rather unremarkable. Whereas if I said I was abducted by space aliens yesterday and they let me fly their ship around the Earth, given the extraordinary nature of the claim, you’d have good reason to suspect that I was either lying or delusional. At that point, it would be quite reasonable for you to demand evidence. And if instead, I came up with a host of excuses, while that wouldn’t prove my experience didn’t happen, you’d have good reason to not believe it. And the responsibility would not be yours to prove it didn’t happen but rather it’d be on me to prove I did fly an alien ship.
This is ESPECIALLY important when charging people for a service. Caveat emptor, my ass. You commit fraud by selling a service you can’t provide, you’re going down. It’s that simple.
And as far as QJ goes, it’s about as likely as monkeys flying out of my butt. But again, I’m completely open-minded to look at compelling evidence under proper controlled conditions that might change my mind. Now I’ve told you what would change my mind; so to such an open-minded person as yourself, what would change yours?
You might not like to think in terms of true or false, right or wrong, but that doesn’t change the fact that reality is not subjective and that some ideas are in fact false and wrong. For instance, if I claimed the moon was made out of cheese, I would be dead fuckin’ wrong regardless of how you or I feel about it.
And I wanted to point out that my first comments were not intended as a dig at your character. Maybe I should have asked you whether you believe – yourself and your beliefs are trapped in a reality of YOUR own creation?
I agree with some of your reply to “what is literal reality”
very much so regarding this looking like a scam. If you have this knowledge, why make a quick buck from it, surely you would aim to openly share this knowledge to those who would like to listen and be open.
You also have to consider that education and science have also been heavily manipulated over time. What you (us/humans) are taught to be scientific fact, may not be due to the control on educational and religous systems on a truly global scale.
The only person you can implictily trust is yourself and your inner intuition. I will keep to this
No, myself and my beliefs are trapped in reality period. Now we can certainly have fun with thought experiments about how we might all be living in the Matrix and that the rules governing our observable reality are just the rules of the game in a grand simulation, but while that could all be hypothetically true, it gets us nowhere. And if you want to believe that, be my guest and hop out the nearest 30-story window or slice open your eye with a razor because it’s all the same anyway.
Whether entirely “real” (whatever that means) or if we’re just living inside a giant video game, the only rational approach is to learn the rules through observation as well as trial by error. That’s what science is, using the best tools at our disposal for figuring out how the world works. And this method has clear practical applications that have made our existence better in every measurable way. It’s this method of science that has allowed us to split the atom, develop life-saving vaccines, defy gravity with airplanes, and walk on the moon. So what has the we’re all living in a simulation hypothesis given us? Nothing. Nothing at all. But again, any time you want to hop out that window, feel free. After all, if we can’t rely on our own perspective to guide our behavior, suicide might be the only true way to win the game. Could be. Though I doubt it.
I haven’t tried the Quantum Jumping program, and when I read the advertisement I did laugh at the notion of gaining knowledge from alternate versions of ourselves. I still think that’s ridiculous, but I did have an interesting experience as a child that could explain any success people have with this technique.
At 8 years old, I was on the verge of failing my first swimming test the next day because I had been too fearful to put my face in the water and therefore had not progressed in my swimming lessons. For the previous two weeks, while everyone else was learning to float and tread water in the ‘big pool’, I was left alone in the ‘kiddie pool’ until I could muster the courage to submerge my head.
The night before my much dreaded swimming test, I had a very vivid dream that I was able to breathe under water and that I could swim effortlessly. The next day, I went to the pool without any fear and passed the swimming test – even without having any direct instruction or practice in the techniques. (Then I was punished for being a liar because they thought I already knew how to swim and was just trying to be a brat or a show-off, but that’s beside the point! lol)
Now, I don’t believe I channeled an alternate mermaid-me to accomplish this. I think that the information reached my subconscious because I could hear the instructors and could see my classmates performing the tasks according to the instructions. The dream helped me overcome my fear, which gave me the confidence to apply that subconscious knowledge in the real world.
We are exposed to a lot of information directly and indirectly – more than we can possibly consciously process – so most of it is stored but untapped in our subconscious.
I think this technique probably tries to provide access to that knowledge through meditation and uses metaphors to give confidence in that knowledge because (sadly) many of us have such a high degree of self-doubt that we find it easier to believe in an imaginary entity or a ‘matrix’ than in our own potential.
Ziggy says I have a 100% chance of continuing to find people gullible (and desperate) enough to fall for this kind of crap. Oh boy. Actually I’d say that was more of a leap than a jump. Sad.
It is mind boggling how pathetic you haters sound out there. The guy is NOT (i repeat for you morons out there, NOT) trying to rip anyone off, he states himself that this method is not a scientific breakthrough, and that he looks upon it himself as a placebo effect in itself.
This is a form of meditation that COULD work but only if you allow your brain to really focus. Admittedly, it is unfair to label this as tapping into alternate realities, because while those may exist, we will need more than placebo effects to tap into them. However, this does nothing to rip the people off. It is not the guy’s fault if some people are stupid enough to buy the cd and not believe in the stuff they are doing. It is the person behind the meditation that has the power to focus.
Now, i am not going to attempt to pretend that alternate realities is the foundation of this meditation (every product has a silver lining of bullshit), but in a way, it could be useful if you let it relax your mind. What most people need is relaxation and the motivation these days. If you go look at most successful people, you will find their childhoods filled with the fighting of evil forces that try to pin down their hopes and eradicate their self motivation, but they push it back.
This is not meant for laughter, those of you who stupidly criticize this product truly have no significant value of self worth, you are people who demand spoon feeding, people who wait for something to do the work for them. It will not kill you if you tried to meditate and used your brain to achieve success rather than come online and bitch about placebo effects when you don’t know what the hell you are talking about.
But for the morons out there, the placebo effect is a powerful one indeed, and if scientists told you that a device had been invented and it would tap into alternate realities, and they strapped it onto your head, you would never realize it was made of plastic. If you truly believe in something, there is a way to make it happen.
Anyone who labels this a scam or a piece of undignified crap, needs a reality check. Your poor judgement’s often reflect your own flaws, and weaknesses. You make excuses like (some people bought this crap). But it is not money that is the issue, as we all know, we can get this stuff for free if we need it. You just refuse to believe flat out in self meditation. The joke is on the poor bastards who come here and try to sound smart in any significant way.
This is nothing new, every product you buy (including the laptop you used to write down your bullshit), has some lie to it. But in the world of quantum physics, you have no lie or truth, because as of today, nothing has been proven completely. Either use it for benefits, or stop humiliating yourselves.
It’s mind-blowing how many people will so passionately defend an unambiguous scam, especially one that you claim the scam artist freely admits is a scam. That’s what attributing results to the placebo effect means. It’s a subtle way of avoiding responsibility to actually deliver promised results using a term that most laypeople don’t understand. And nowhere on at least the first page of his website does he mention the placebo effect. What he DOES do on the first page is reference at least a dozen of the greatest scientific minds in history and try to suggest their findings somehow validate his pseudo-scientific claims when they most certainly do not by any stretch of anyone’s imagination.
“This is a form of meditation that COULD work but only if you allow your brain to really focus.”
Again, no it can’t. He’s not saying this is all in your head as you imagine a fictional conversation of a fictional alternate version of yourself. He’s literally claiming “thought transference” with a literal version of yourself from a literal alternate dimension.
He goes on to say:
“Quantum Theory suggests that our physical reality is nothing but a very elaborate mirage. A super-hologram of information and energy. A Matrix.”
Quantum Theory says no such thing and The Matrix is a FICTIONAL movie. I’ve met Keanu Reeves. He can’t really dodge bullets. That was just a movie.
“It is not the guy’s fault if some people are stupid enough to buy the cd and not believe in the stuff they are doing. ”
Actually, it is his fault for charging people for a service he knows he can’t possibly provide and deliberately deceiving people by exploiting scientific ignorance. This is a criminal offense known as fraud.
I have no problem with people meditating to lower their blood pressure or just to relax; meditation is free. But Burt is selling is not simple meditation but a pseudo-scientific scam.
“you are people who demand spoon feeding, people who wait for something to do the work for them.”
No, we’re people who demand companies comply with fair business practices and don’t cheat their customers. I fail to see how anyone thinking person could interpret that as unreasonable.
“It will not kill you if you tried to meditate and used your brain to achieve success rather than come online and bitch about placebo effects when you don’t know what the hell you are talking about. ”
Fortunately, our criminal system doesn’t demand that victims actually die before justice and appropriate remedies can be served. Not so fortunate, however, for guys like Bernard Madoff and Burt.
“If you truly believe in something, there is a way to make it happen.”
This is called delusion. It’s not a good thing.
“Anyone who labels this a scam or a piece of undignified crap, needs a reality check. ”
Oh, do tell.
“But it is not money that is the issue, as we all know, we can get this stuff for free if we need it. ”
Oh, well as long as Burt’s only stealing a little money for his bullshit services, that’s okay. You must have attended one hell of a good law school.
“You just refuse to believe flat out in self meditation. ”
Um, no. I’m actually a fan of meditation. What I’m much less of a fan of is assholes who exploit scientific ignorance to scam the public and those who shamelessly defend them.
“This is nothing new, every product you buy (including the laptop you used to write down your bullshit), has some lie to it.”
This is called the tu quoque fallacy. Just because everyone else is doing it, it doesn’t make it okay. I also categorically reject your false equivalence between what might be tiny lies and big honking nonsense piled on top of a foundation of total bullshit that contributes to the overall scientific ignorance of the public.
“But in the world of quantum physics, you have no lie or truth, because as of today, nothing has been proven completely.”
Quantum physics–you keep using those words; I do not think they mean what you think they mean.
Dear Smith and Mjr256,
The Author stated that his self-help meditation program is based on the latest “discoveries” in the fields of science, and he gave us the names of some scientists… and that is a lie (he did not talk about the placebo effect, and by the way do you think that if you give to an impotent a blue pill made from chalk and tell him that is Viagra…he would get a hard on?). There are no scientists who would agree with Bert Goldman’s beliefs, and actually we do not even know for sure if there are Parallel Universes. There are many self-help CDs out there, but none of them dare to involve the science like Bert do…and that was his mistake. Bert’s self-help CDs belong to Sci-Fi field because they do not have a scientific support what so ever…
Facts:
-We know that the galaxies belong to cluster of galaxies, like our Milky Way belongs to the local cluster that includes Andromeda, Triangulum and others.
-We know that the Universe is made of clusters of Galaxies therefore we assume that the Multiverse is made of super clusters of Universes.
-We know that the galaxies merge and there are some galaxies that collide even in this very moment. There is evidence that the Universes collide, merge like the galaxies, and there is evidence that our Universe is actually a “Dwarf Universe” – see my latest blog http://www.myspace.com/octavian7/blog/542727770 In other words the Universes inside the Multiverse merge and become one, like the galaxies (for instance in the far future the Andromeda will merge with our Milky Way).
With all these mergers there is no way to talk about parallel Universes or Multiverse anymore… I guess we might talk about One Super Universe… therefore Quantum Jumping is a fallacy and actually the Bible could be right when it talked about One Universe…ha, ha, ha.
Though in the past my position was like yours, I guess Mjr256 is right and we all are (or were) wrong and I apologize to Mjr256 for being sarcastic in the past, as you are now. There is no doubt that Mjr256 has a stronger personality than you an I. I am sure that Mrj256 used and appreciate all kind of meditation tapes in the past, like you and I… but Quantum Jumping is another story. Bert mistake was that he attached the science symbol to his self-help CDs to make us buy it. Octavian
Thank you for the positive feedback.
I am skeptical about Schermer what are his credentials…if any? Who made him the authority representative for skeptics…or is he the editor/publisher of a magazine called Skeptic.
It is good to be skeptical only so that you can do due diligence on any scientific theoretical proposition or pseudo-scientific proposition…what is pseudo?
“Damn it Jim I ‘m not a skeptic, I’m a scientist — a new scientist…an esoteric scientist…what is esoteric?
Read my word press blog…oh skeptical one!
Michael Shermer has a Ph.D. in History of Science and is the founding publisher of Skeptic Magazine, as well as the director of the Skeptics Society, host of the Skeptics Lecture Series at Caltech, and a contributing editor of and monthly columnist for Scientific American. He has also published a number of books about matters that relate to science and skepticism.
While he’s certainly a representative for skeptics, I would hesitate to necessarily call him an “authority.” But if he can be called such, then nobody simply bestowed that honor on him but rather it’d merely be a result of his tireless devotion to advocating for good science and critical thinking while exposing pseudoscience and fuzzy thinking.
Ah can you say fuzzy logic…and while semantics is the crux of the matter when it comes to full disclosure regarding psuedo (e.g., spirit ,mind and body) then as hu-mans we are arrogant to know what everything is albeit a “theory for everything” as stated by Einstein — spooky!!!
I fail to see what semantics has to do with whether Bert can perform the services he advertises or not, nor do I understand why you’re invoking the notion of a “theory of everything.”
In doing my due diligence on the word “fuzzy thinking” — a book/author, Kosko , an engineer professor at the University of Southern California, purports a rather radical but scientific paradigm shift regarding “Fuzzy” as logic and posits a world in which absolutes, such as those implied in the words “true” and “false , ” are semantics by choice and less important and interesting than the matters of degree between them.
Therefore he related “Fuzziness is grayness,” and “the truth lies in the middle,” Kosko, as one can contend is a pioneers of “fuzzy logic” as theory (no application), which he persuasively presents as a “world view” as Buddhist as opposed to Taoist assumptions which dichotomously opposes Aristotelian tradition. Accordingly, FATs (Fuzzy Approximation Theorems) are iterated “for the existence and non-existence, as fuzziness demands of God and as dualistic models to debate.. what is your take on these choice of semantics used to explain anomalous event such as UFO, crop circles, Nessie the Loch Ness sea creature…. h-m-m-m-m-m!
I’ve never read Kosko and didn’t realize he had a book by that name. I meant to simply refer to a form of uncritical thinking.
Regarding the semantics used to describe many anomalous events, I certainly recognize that many of the common verbiage is inadequate or even misleading. I, however, often will use those terms when discussing the issues because it makes an effective short-hand. Alleged flying saucer or extraterrestrial spacecraft, etc. often might be more accurate in some discussions but everyone knows what you mean when you just say UFO even if that term does not necessarily imply extraterrestrial origins. And while crop circles aren’t always circles, like with UFO, it makes for a good short-hand term to describe the whole alleged phenomena because everyone knows what a crop circle is.
I accidentally came across the “Quantum Jumping” website and within 2 seconds I realized that ending up on that page was accidental on my part. However, the more I read, the more I couldn’t stop reading as I was in such disbelief that there are actually people out there that believe this stuff! I can not even wrap my mind around the fact that they are really serious… am I on candid camera?! Not to mention, it took 3 decades or something like that for these so-called “scientists” to come up with this “hypothesis” and the end result out of the whole thing is just to get people to think???!!! Seriously???!!! Too bad these “scientists” clearly don’t believe in God and His Word, otherwise they could have saved 30 years of coming up with this “hypothesis” just to come to the same end result… change your thinking aka positive thinking! By the way, the definition of hypothesis is a mere assumption or guess, however God’s way of thinking is based on truth and there is no guessing. I truly feel sorry for the individual that really believes this or even tosses around the idea that there could possibly be any truth to it. If you want the truth, READ THE BIBLE! It will save you 30 years of this imaginary merry-go-round of wrong teachings. If you want something to believe in, BELIEVE IN GOD… not some ridiculous idea that you have multiple doppelgängers in “parallel universes” living the good life! I can’t believe I’m even taking the time to comment, but I am just astounded as I have never heard of anything so ridiculous. If you want to something to meditate on then meditate on God’s Word because He is the Way, the Truth, and the Life and the outcome is overflowing prosperity and abundance in every area of your life. God can not tell lies, otherwise the universe HE created would crumble. His vows and promises are 2 things that can never be changed. You have the freedom to believe what you want… choose wisely. Every answer you’ll ever need is in His Word… you’re in for a rude awakening if you believe otherwise!
Among the the science in the video I certainly smelled some old baloney! That Global warming is man made is FAR from scientific. Doctored data to fit an agenda is NOT very scientific at all! Geological history proves that GW has been coming and going since long before humans roamed the earth, but some so called “scientist” are not interested in real proof when they can make up their own!
The consensus of climate scientists would greatly disagree with you on that one. And to date, no legitimate accusation of doctored data has been proven, while countless such accusations have been shown to be untrue. But I’m not interested in getting into a debate over anthrogenic global warming here, so I’ll just link to my collection of literature discussing climate change:
http://www.dangeroustalk.net/a-team/Global_Warming
Dear mjr256,
It truly is pathetic to find a parasite impersonator such as yourself on such a website. You stick to this forum and use big words in the hope that people will think you are smart.
Quantum jumping is a tool that could be potentially a very strong source of self motivation and achievements. Meditation by oneself (like you claim to have done) is many times not enough because people need tools to get things done.
You are a person who picks the most insignificant scam on the internet and makes a big (and pointless) deal out of it. You assume we live in a world scam-free and things like this are frowned upon? or maybe you are just a self loathing hypocrite of your own lies…
The laptop (or pc) you typed your very meaningless message was a rip off in itself, for it takes so little money to manufacture laptops and pc’s and you buy them with a smile on your face.
Quantum jumping can be used by non-hypocritical people to help them find some potential talent or ability that they could not previously find.
As for your empty directed mockery, the jokes on you, because mockery is an act of desperation. You are trying to make your point so badly that you write amusing messages intended to ‘prove’ some imaginary conspiracy.
You really have no proof that the worlds top minds have believed in quantum jumping, and you never will at this rate of stupidity.
The product is not a total (or fully) a scam if you use it how it was meant to be used. Yes, the part about tapping into other universes is very BS laced, but it could be used in a more productive way that being resentful at life and trying to prove something that is not there.
Law school you say? i am not even going bother to comment as again you make the stupid mistake of assuming this is a scam free world.
Just to summarize : Just because you have no life, and type a message that is ridiculously large, does NOT (focus here) mean that you come off as smart.
I will be eagerly awaiting your next bitch fit 🙂
“It truly is pathetic to find a parasite impersonator such as yourself on such a website. You stick to this forum and use big words in the hope that people will think you are smart.”
Um, I don’t think you know what the words “parasite” or “impersonator” mean. Or else I’m at a complete loss for how you are applying those words to me. And can you please tell me what big words I used that you found so troubling? That way I can try to stick to words you do understand like “see”, “spot”, and “run.”
“Quantum jumping is a tool that could be potentially a very strong source of self motivation and achievements.”
…
“You are a person who picks the most insignificant scam on the internet and makes a big (and pointless) deal out of it.”
Is it too much to ask for some internal consistency. Is it a tool or an insignificant scam? I don’t think you can have it both ways. And I’m pretty sure I didn’t make a big deal out of it; I just kinda pointed and laughed at it.
“You assume we live in a world scam-free and things like this are frowned upon? ”
Yes, that’s why I operate a blog exposing scams…because I assume we live in a scam-free world. I’m glad I have you here to assume my assumptions for me.
“or maybe you are just a self loathing hypocrite of your own lies…”
Now I’m starting to think you don’t know what the word “hypocrite” means since no accusation you made demonstrates any such characteristic. And does “hypocrite:” count as a big word? Can I now make asinine accusations for no good reason too?
“The laptop (or pc) you typed your very meaningless message ”
For something so meaningless, it sure managed to get your panties in a twist though, didn’t it?
“Quantum jumping can be used by non-hypocritical people to help them find some potential talent or ability that they could not previously find.”
Really? How does it do that? By bringing people in contact with their imaginary friends from Never Never Land?
“As for your empty directed mockery, the jokes on you, because mockery is an act of desperation.”
How so? And hey! I thought you said this article was meaningless! How can it both be meaningless and be meant as mockery? Malfunction. Malfunction. Crazy troll logic does not compute.
“You are trying to make your point so badly that you write amusing messages intended to ‘prove’ some imaginary conspiracy. ”
Yeeeeeah, I’m pretty sure I did no such thing. I think this communication might go smoother if you stopped responding to things you imagined I wrote and focused only on the things I actually wrote. And again, how can an article that you claim is “meaningless” be meant to prove some conspiracy? Oohhh! You said imaginary conspiracy! You didn’t mean MY imaginary conspiracy but the one YOU imagined I wrote about! Now it makes sense.
“You really have no proof that the worlds top minds have believed in quantum jumping, and you never will at this rate of stupidity.”
Nor does anyone else…because they didn’t. But if you can show me such proof, I’m happy to look at it.
“The product is not a total (or fully) a scam if you use it how it was meant to be used.”
You mean by bringing people in contact with their imaginary friends from Never Never Land? You know, the exact thing the website specifically claims it does?
“being resentful at life and trying to prove something that is not there.”
Does it also make you more prone to making up absurd assumptions about people who have the audacity to not think exactly like you do? Cause if so, it must really work because you’re a master at that!
“i am not even going bother to comment as again you make the stupid mistake of assuming this is a scam free world.”
Which again, must explain why I have a blog devoted to exposing scams that even has a specific category, which can be found on the side panel to the right of your screen marked “Scams.”
“Just to summarize : Just because you have no life, and type a message that is ridiculously large, does NOT (focus here) mean that you come off as smart. ”
Aw, but I think you’re awesome! There’s that amazing capacity to just make up childish insults about people rather than attempt an adult conversation that I’ve come to know and love! I tell ya, man. You’re aces in my book!
Dear MJR256,
There is no doubt that Burt is a gold-digger otherwise he will sell his self-help program for a few bucks, not a hundred. Why a “monk” would ask for so much money when he could even save his program as an mp3 file and post it for a few bucks on his site, or even to be downloaded free because he is the American Monk?
Just for the heck of it, let’s assume that there is such a thing as a parallel World populated with other us by far more successful. To get to this World, using Burt’s gate, means that we have to use a sort of Out of Body procedure. My question for you is if you believe in OBEs, or you think that the OBEs are nothing more than Lucid Dreaming? I understand that the Lucid Dreaming are those dreams where we are aware of us dreaming. Is there something magical about the Lucid Dreaming that go beyond our physical body, or they are just thoughts interpretations because all kind of chemical reactions, or neurons interactions that take place in there? Is there such a think as “Soul”
Is the biographical novel “Out on a Limb” truly depicting Shirley’s Out of the Body around the Moon, or it was nothing more than a Lucid Dreaming phenomenon inside her head, and she just believed she had and Out of Body…because she was told so by her Guru? I understand that David character (her Guru from the book) is a composite character, and also that beautiful Pleiadian woman could be a composite character (Billy Meier was the first to lie about the Pleiadian woman… he didn’t know that the Pleiadian stars are five times younger than our sun and their planets could be in the Hadean era full of volcanoes erupting… not populated by beings more advanced than us…ha, ha, ha).
I had an overwhelming, visual and vivid “OBE” induced by a self-hypnosis program, and I found myself flying in a tunnel so I know that I experienced that consciously. Is there a scientifically explanation for the OBE’s (induced by self-hypnosis not by drugs), and is there such a thing as a “Soul” that can leave the body behind, and flies around the Moon (or in my case inside a red tunnel) and then returns inside the physical body? If the OBEs are real then I guess we could use the so-called wormholes to get to those parallel Universes or to… infinite?!?!? Though it would be nice to be true, I am afraid it is just Sci-Fi. Many thanks Octavian
Octavian,
Thanks for the interesting comment.
I’ve experienced enough OBEs myself (and even can deliberately induce them at times) to accept the experience is real, however yes, I believe it’s just a form of lucid dream. No consciousness literally leaves the body, and there doesn’t seeming to be any mechanism on which that could possibly happen, given what we now know of the brain. The only way I can conceive is with some sort of hypothetical technology that would work like a kind of external modem that could upload and then store the data making up one’s consciousness into its hard drive. Such a device, if even possible at all, is nowhere near existing and we’ve barely scratched the surface. All the current evidence I’m aware of points to our consciousness being a purely localized phenomenon that is the product of both the hardware and the specific chemical processes of our physical brains. And we can indeed see dramatic personality changes in patients with brain damage. The famous case taught to beginning psychology students is Phineas Gage, who grew increasingly more hot-headed and quick to anger after almost miraculously surviving an explosives accident that caused a metal rod to literally travel through the pre-frontal cortex of his brain.
Now I haven’t read “Out on a Limb”, but from what you’ve said, my answer is the latter, that it’s probably a real experience, but just not a paranormal one. And from what you describe it certainly sounds like the author may have been heavily influenced by New Age “gurus” and guys like the infamous Billy Meier with his photos of space alien women from Sweden.
Regarding the specifics of the science of OBEs, Wikipedia is a great beginning resource with citations to primary sources: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Out-of-body_experience#Neurology_and_OBE-like_experiences
Dear MJR256
You are right the author was heavily influenced by the New Age gurus, and by Billy Meier himself, she met him. Actually I was a member of her site and kind of happy because I was a great fan of her, her talent, beauty, and also there were some meditation sessions about visualization that appealed to me. Unfortunately I was banned after six months because I dared to speak up my mind and tell them that there is no such a thing as the deceased dogs would reincarnate into cats, the horses into something else, and the deceased pig pets come on and off to comfort the owner…you know sometimes I eat pork chops and also Italian bologna that has some sweet horse meat in it, and those posts upset me….they made me feel guilty. I was told that I didn’t have the right to question the members’ beliefs. I didn’t care that I paid my membership and I was banned, I cared that those posts were obviously not their beliefs, they were their fabrications, and I was banned because of that! I told them that those stories are disrespectful, and they made me a jackass and insensitive. I said that I was sensitive to one member’s pain that her dog died, just that I was not sensitive to her request, when she asked where her deceased dog is now… I told her that her dog is dead and she should buy a new pet if this is what she wants. I felt like Giordano Bruno at the stake… a sort of!
Your website (and your great personality) is unique, you know the people can speak their minds without being afraid that they could be banned, and by the way your website is free… If you have time and you want to read a few lines from the last thread I was banned then here is the link (my user name is Celebrate and I signed as Octavian). I opened many threads, for instance about the Plato’s myth Atlantis, The Pleiades Civilization myth etc. http://www.shirleymaclaine.com/encounter/showthread.php?t=212490&page=4&pp=10
Yeah, one of the strange things I’ve observed about the New Age community is that despite CONSTANTLY proclaiming themselves to be “open-minded” and CONSTANTLY claiming no one has a right to disagree with anyone else, they turn out to not be very open-minded when someone presents an alternative viewpoint to theirs and their extreme anti-confrontationalist dogma. I see the movement as the opposite side of the dogmatic coin. In reaction to religious extremism, they’ve tried to go too far in the other direction, by dogmatically rejecting any claim to authority about anything altogether. And while I share their dislike of religious extremism, I recognize that there are things about our world that we really can know and do know with a great degree of certainty through the mechanism of science. I also believe that disagreement is a healthy thing and forces people to think critically about their beliefs.
But because disagreement is so discouraged to the point of being ostracized from New Age forums, they end up just becoming echo chambers where every idea, no matter how silly, is embraced as fact instead of being scrutinized first. It also doesn’t help that a multi-million dollar industry has co-opted New Age ideology and will actively manipulate the movement for their own profit. A great example of this can be found in a first season episode of Penn & Teller’s “Bullshit” where they visit a UFO convention that featured speakers ranging from the only slightly deluded to the totally nutty as well as an endless array of venders exploiting the beliefs by selling the most absurd products.
Dear MJR256 “I also believe that disagreement is a healthy thing and forces people to think critically about their beliefs”, yes this is a great observation and I agree with that. I would like to believe that though I was banned from Shirley MacLaine’s site, the members learned something constructive from my posts, or at least they will think twice before they’ll post new threads…
I am sure that many of those people who “jumped” on you with sarcasm on this thread, ultimately they learned something from your posts and became more critical about their beliefs…and that’s the idea. Even if God created everything (God being a hyper dimensional space), still the scientists are those wonderful people who look for the “tools” that help the humans live a better life. Actually the Mobil Phones were invented based on the Black Hole’s discoveries, so even if we think that the scientists spend too much time on theories, still because those theories there are so many practical applications that serve all of us. I am not suggesting that everybody has to go to polytechnics and study hard, or all of us become a “Maharishi Mahesh Yogi” and learn to fly at will (I doubt this one), what I am trying to say is that even if we disagree to something at least we should be polite to each other . I believe that those people who have high blood pressure tend to be irascible and call each other names… so they should check their blood pressure a.s.a.p
For your amusement, before I was banned I posted an artwork to Shirley MacLaine’s “Laughing Thread” section. My artwork depicts Billy Meier‘s blue and bearded Alter Ego beamed down from the Pleiades Cluster to influence others. Well, because the planets from the Pleiades Cluster are still in the Hadean era, the blue blob has devilish horns … http://www.shirleymaclaine.com/encounter/showthread.php?t=212559
Fantastic, I really did have a good couple of laughs, mostly at all this argueing! I have the ability of second sight and I have researched alot to find out how this even happens, I am going to test the quantum jumping theory by practice, because in the end that how any one knows what is true, by testing. It may be Jungian, where we ourselves have many aspects of personalities, but it may be something else, fact is you never know what you can do until you give it a go.
I had a mental breakdown once and recovered totally drug free, through the healing process i had visions of different aspects of my self in their pure states, i had dreams that led me and i had a major shift in consciousness that really in itself was mindblowing, fact is those visions and dreams were so real to me that they remain in my memorys as very impacting moments in my life. If quantum jumping can assist us in our everyday reality by giving to us some skill or knowledge that we can apply then isnt it worth attaining this ability? Less fear, more intimacy, clear decision making, self power, these are all good things that make the world happier to be in, Right?
Since you have second sight, you probably already know that I’m rolling my eyes as I read your comment.
wll i did some researching, and asked the kids what they thought about the whole story thus far, and thtey tell me that a doopleganger isnt the best idea to be experimenting with,basically cos its a way for demons to use not very wise, they reckon that quantam leaping does not incorperate any dooplegangers, and that i should try another way of time line crossing or information uploading more matrix like 🙂
yeah, you rolled your eyes, but you smiled too 🙂
hope your still smiling everyone, well, as far as i can see so far 🙂 burts programme seems to fully run along the lines of self-hypnosis, and therefor anyone who can meditate or be suggestive to themself will have an experience. it doesnt cost any money to do this, all you need is to write the suggestive words out and read them to yourself all the while relaxing your body and then you will enter the alpha state where lucid images can be seen innerly, you can near try anything you want with self hypnosis, enter a future, go to a past, create a protective santuary for your mind, and i well imagine, talk to another you.
Meanwhile i am still on the trail of seeing if quantum leaping is different to this and something else that may have a realityof its own.
WOW! This comments thread has been going on from August 2009…. I have no idea how I came to this web page. It obviosuly had something to do with Quantum Jumping…but I’ve forgotten how or why I was interested in it in the first place….I’m only two-thirds of my way through reading the comments and will be back tomorrow to continue reading. 🙂
Cheeky 🙂 you know im a believer, its always been my problem,so i study heaps and put everything to the test, to try and learn ‘what the heck in the world’ about this world, IS real, I seriously believe theres a God who may well be named Zeus, (because of my theory that we are meant to prounounce Jesus as ‘I Zeus’ and because of the Latin ‘Deus’ translated as God…) I gota fair idea there are a family of them, just like there was a family of Giants, (yes, yes roll your eyes, but I believe its True 🙂 and they got scrappy with each other over –teritory– the sky and the earth. An ancient history, near forgotten,
I, guess what :), have also seen some amazing light phenomena in the night sky, looking like stars, appearing, zooming, flashing, merging and vanishing. Now these are definately not shooting stars or comets and we would be very closed minded sitting here on our laptops with our electricity advanced culture to not allow the thought that there may be intelligence and life in other solar systems.
Not to leave anyone out I also believe in talking to Jesus for spiritual emotional comfort, and that there is a Powerful energy that responds to my desperate needs making it happen as fast as humanly possible.
I dont call myself religious in the usual sense of the world, and I dont call myself new age either, 🙂 I think all this is Ancient
and just so as i dont leave anything out, i also believe in majik and mysterious things that Nature shows to me, i believe stories have power too and music and songs and of course the words we speak.
You believe in OBE and i also know this experience, i think that in this world we are either observers and take on what others say without question, or we are experiencers, and hold firm to what we have experienced.
What do you reckon?
I don’t agree with this sort of black and white false dichotomy that people can either be 100% dogmatic or 100% accepting of any thought that pops into their heads no matter how absurd it is. There is a wide spectrum between belief and skepticism, of which I surmise most people fall closer to the center.
Dear Jaynice,
You said “You believe in OBE and i also know this experience”. MRJ256 never said he belives in OBEs , he said he experienced many OBEs and that they are nothing more than Lucid Dreaming. In other words the OBEs are not paranormal phenomena, and there is no consciousness that leaves the body and returns, everything happens at the brain level… unfortunatelly (I had a vivid OBE too)
You said “we would be very closed minded sitting here on our laptops with our electricity advanced culture to not allow the thought that there may be intelligence and life in other solar systems”. Well, I believe that the very first civilization in the Universe, since the Big Bang, said the same thing like you “we would be very closed minded sitting here on our laptops with our electricity advanced culture to not allow the thought that there may be intelligence and life in other solar systems”, and of course they were wrong because the answer was “they were alone” 🙂
… What if we are the very first civilization ever in the Universe, I mean it could be possible? The chemical elements in the Universe have been produced by many cosmic processes (for instance nuclear processes) over a long period of time since the Big Bang. Actually the Big Bang generated the Hydrogen, and the first generation of stars created Helium, and from that the Beryllium, then Carbon. After that each generation of stars since the Big Bang got a little bit more heavy elements than the previous stars. Those stars had a full life, exploded and the matter mixed with the dust from around and created other stars with more heavy elements. Although the Stars can exist only with lighter elements than Beryllium in order the thermonuclear reaction inside the core to take place, still the life as we know it on their planets need heavier elements too in order to emerge. The third generations of stars since the Big Bang are rich in heavy metals and our Sun belongs to it. Carbon is abundant in the Universe, very stabile and capable to form long chains of atoms and it is very important to living systems. No other element (not even Silicon or Methane…thir chains are less stabile than Carbon) has a better chance to contribute to life like the Carbon… and of course the life on Earth is Carbon base. The astronomers look for those stars that are similar in composition like our Sun because those star systems might harbor life. Alpha Centauri star system has two of its Stars similar to our Sun… Anyway, wouldn’t you be proud if you’d know that the Mankind is the very first civilization in the Universe… and the rest will follow…it could be possible. Hey, I am not suggesting you to put your laptop aside and shout it out across the Universe “we are alone, we are the first intelligent beings ever in our Universe (there may be clusters of Universes”
I found the comments on this article much more interesting than the article, and I think a lot of you would benefit from reading this piece. No, I don’t think I believe in alternate universes or in this Quantum Jumping stuff, but I think enough of you are so full of yourselves and your scientific method that you would benefit from understanding how the world really works.
http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~kuipers/opinions/electrons-vs-fairies.html
🙂 hi Octaivan, well remembering that the Big Bang IS a theory, and though you seem to have this unfathomable knowledge of what planets and solar systems and stages of development are, i would like to suggest that this is all just knowledge that you have read and dare i say it…Believed. 🙂 Now i really might be stretching it here, but how bout every solar system is like an egg, it has a boundary, and( just my theory mind) what is really happening is that every Sun or Sol or Soul has its own energy (just like each individual person) and what happens through the real true forces of magnetism, and gravitation plasma and light is Creation, the living Sol bursts out every matter (everything that matters) and then through the forces (magnetism, gravity, plasma, light) secondry forces are created (sound, heat, colours, water) and lyke some amazing cloud symphony Creation is going on seemingly slowly, yet right in front of our eyes.
Now i used to be very innocent, but i learned not to trust and so i am a skeptic in alot of ways, i dont believe that there were dinosoars, i believe they were dragons, yes i truly do.
And i have a strong suspicion that in the Alpha Centuri system on the planet Sirus IS people that do really look lyke us and that our DNA is composed of their DNA, and very posibly many eons ago when they first came to earth with their lap tops to scientifically study this Water Planet that we call Earth, some thing fairly minor happened,like they ran out of fuel or the craft broke down and they were stuck here, and thus earthlings first were born from the Star people.
Wouldnt that be something 🙂 and maybe an ancestral line to be proud of, Question is would they really be proud of us, we are a very warlike people.
When the word theory is used in science, it means the general or abstract principles of a body of fact. For instance, we have the Theory of Gravity, Germ Theory, and the Theory of Relativity. All of which are demonstrable facts. That the Big Bang occurred is about as undisputable a fact as ideas can reasonable get, and not because everyone just takes the word of arbitrary authorities. It is observable. And just because you personally haven’t fathomed something, it doesn’t make it unfathomable. Believe it or not, there is a whole field of research called Cosmology that involves carefully observing the development process of planets, star systems, and galaxies. This is not mere speculation but hard science. Here’s a link to the Talk Origins page that lays out the massive scientific evidence for the Big Bang: http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/astronomy/bigbang.html
And other than a vague phonetic similarity, I fail to see any connection between our sun and the mythical notion of a soul. And I dare say it’s a dreadful analogy on your part because we know where the sun’s energy comes from and we know it will eventually burn out entirely (http://academic.brooklyn.cuny.edu/physics/sobel/Nucphys/sun.html). You can’t have it both ways. You can’t just proclaim proven scientific facts are mere speculations and then try to substitute your own baseless speculations as if they’re facts. You must either adopt reasonable verifiable standards of evidence or concede that you’re merely speculating about things you don’t understand.
Now it’s one thing to apply reasonable scrutiny to ideas one is exposed to; indeed, the primary goal of this very blog is to promote such skepticism to the extent that is reasonable. However, it’s entirely another thing to refuse to accept proven knowledge because it conflicts with your own personal intuitive truthiness. That is not skepticism but denialism. And if you refuse to even accept the existence of dinosaurs, something that you can personally see the evidence for at any natural history museum in the world, then I can’t see how we can continue to have any meaningful conversation. Goodbye and please stop wasting my time.
Dear Jaynice,
The Big Bang is more than a theory; the Universe had had a beginning, and there is evidence using the cosmic microwave background radiation that the Big Bang really took place in the past.
“The star people visited us, ran out of fuel, or the craft broke down and they were stuck here and thus earthlings first were born from the Star people?” If the star people had the knowledge to travel more than a couple of light years to Earth then even if their craft broke down still they could be “saved” and brought back to their home…they could use their wireless super-laptops or their super-mobile phones 🙂 There is evidence that Lucy was born 3 million years ago in Ethiopia, we found her skeleton and we used the carbon dating procedure. There is no evidence the Earth was visited by Star People…we didn’t find anything, no laptops … only photos with UFOs and with a beautiful Pleiadian woman that resemble one from Dean Martin show …thanks to Billy Meier 🙂 There is no evidence that Plato’s advanced civilization Atlantis ever existed at the end of the Ice Age, we didn’t find anything to encourage us to believe that. There is evidence that Plato made up the things to change the Greek society to resemble the utopian Atlantis… Plato was a philosopher. Because his socialistic views he was sentence to death… his friends bought his death sentence so he could live (His teacher Socrates was not so lucky, he didn’t have friends to buy his death sentence…).
Though the life in our Universe does not necessary be Carbon base, according to scientists Carbon has by far more chance than any other element because it is from the beginning of time, by far more stabile and abundant. I never said that other alien life based on Carbon must look like us, or even have a DNA. It could be so different…though it could be Carbon base.
There is evidence that it was a time when the Earth was populated by dinosaurs…not by dragons. You look for the truth in fairy tales with dragons and star people; the scientists use the carbon dating for archeology and the cosmic microwave background radiation for Cosmos, and so much more in order to find out the truth. Because the scientists findings you allow yourself to fantasize about the star people, magnetism, plasma, amazing cloud symphony Creation (the Nebulas are nurseries for Star creations) … not because the Amish people (not that is wrong …they are awesome people too, I like them and I buy their products). Without the scientists input in our lives you wouldn’t even be able to express yourself using that academic language… a sort of. We are an intrinsic part of our Universe and its constrains (three for space and one for time) and because of that we can’t perform miracles; therefore we can’t fly at will like Ariel, we need the scientists to build airplaines. We need doctors to heal us. Maharishi Mahesh Yogi will never heal us, he couldn’t heal George Harrison who strongly believed he could, and George died of lung, throat and brain cancer. Jaynice, there is no doubt that you are a good person, a dreamer with good intentions, just that please don’t allow others take advantage of your innocence (I don’t want to use the word naïve, you said you are innocent).
I stopped buying New Age books since I read someone, a high profile personality who wrote many books about the UFO phenomena, swearing that her deceased dogs reincarnated in her new cats. She lost all her credibility!
Not only is their no evidence for Atlantis, if you actually read Plato’s, he explicitly states it’s a hypothetical place he was making up in order to make a point. It’s like if we were having a conversation about increasing the average lifespan of humans and I were to say, “just imagine there’s this place I’m calling Imagineland where humans are immortal and there’s a population problem, etc,” Plato was presenting an analogy and thousands of years later, people who haven’t bothered to read Plato have misrepresented what he said to suggest he was describing a real place while conveniently leaving out the part where this hypothetical people were evil.
MJR256, of course you are right about Plato and Atlantis, unfortunately Shirley MacLaine does not agree with you and me, she wrote in her biographical book “Sage-ing While Age-ing” (a couple of years ago) that she had a Past Life Experience in Atlantis. She said that Atlantis is real. I guess Atlantis was as real as her “OBE” around the Moon and the huge galaxy behind it, from her biographical book “Out On a Limb”. I am sure that Shirley experienced in her trance the trip around the Moon, and also the trip in time in Atlantis… but those experiences are nothing more than Lucid Dreaming. It’s good to be a successful movie star because you can write whatever you want and nobody can stop you, hmm maybe the next book will be about Dragons… If I were her, and I would finally realize that everything was a lie, I would apology to the World for misleading the people… until then I moved all her books I bought in my basement, in the dark! Her movies are still upstairs in the light; I love them no matter what!
when i had my OBE there were 2 distinct aspects of me, the experiencer and the questioner who i suggest was my consciousness, ‘whats happening’ ‘where are we’ thats what my consciousness kept saying as the experiencer went through the experience having no thoughts what so ever, just feeling and experiencing,and seeing and hearing all that was around the experience. i dont think it was lucid dreaming because the experience went through a sequence of events yet when i came back into my body the physical reality was completely unchanged, the siren of the police car was still going past, as it was in the second before i jaunted.
consciousness always asks questions and evaluates, the soul never thinks, the subconscious is a form of consciousness, that also thinks and reacts, the soul doesnt react, the soul only acts spontaneously.
Hi Jaynice and MJR256,
According to the experts, the difference between the Lucid Dreaming and Dreaming is that in the Lucid Dreaming the people know that they are dreaming; therefore, they can take some actions at will… I guess if they want to fly, they can fly. We know that the dreams are not real because they are not consistent. For instance, in your dream if you look at a table that has a book on it, then turn your head for a moment, and then you look back to the table you might see that the book just disappeared. The same with the windows of the houses, they might look different anytime you look in a different direction then back to them, etc, etc. So everything is processed by our brains…there is nothing paranormal.
The most known OBE experience in the World is Shirley MacLaine’s experience from her biographical book and movie Out on a Limb. According to her, her consciousness rose above her body and she flew around the Moon. She said that when she was on the other side of the Moon she could see a wonderful big Galaxy. Then she came back and she entered her body. You can see a short clip of her OBE experience here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ma1kNFP83ww
I realized that MJR256 is right when he said that the OBEs are nothing more than Lucid Dreaming because Shirley MacLain said she saw that big and beautiful galaxy behind the Moon. Well, the Moon is so close to the Earth that whatever we see from Earth we see from the Moon, or even farther away from our Solar System. There is no way someone could see from the Moon a galaxy as big as she saw, therefore she experienced a Lucid Dreaming and her brain was the creator… she did not experience the departure of her Soul. I am sure that if she would decide to fly again around the Moon she wouldn’t see that galaxy anymore. There were millions of people who bought her biographical book Out on a Limb and believed what she said, and I was one of them… There are millions who bought all her New Age books because they believed in Out on a Limb story… and I was one of them, it is so sad!
Thank you MJR256 for opening my eyes and help me understand the truth about OBEs, please continue your exceptional work here, and bring the light… do it plese for those who are seeking the truth. Octavian
See the film, Inception. It perfectly explains why you still heard the siren and why it’s not remotely supernatural.
Ok, 🙂 im on a roll here, you know what, somewhere in this crazy mixed up amazingly vast conversation-communication,is the recipie for the qnswers we are seeking, metaphysically through science and logic. If its true, it will be true physically,as well as emotions mind spirit, through atmosphere,
and a beautiful web of creation is being created and it gets bigger and bigger and to us right here on our laptop it is real, and if i can scientifically prove it i will do it through tem-pre-ture and emotion combined (in the human body) for starters, because it takes energy: in spark, plasma magnetism, gravity, motion, heat, and water to Create.
and if you want me to i can scientifically prove that it does take this combination.and can also prove the formula being used in inamimate man made objects.
If we all become enlightened to answers from the questions we raise, then wa-la, theres a shift in conscious.
this must theroetically raise us up a level to a higher dimension of consciousness and thus we have quite possibly Quantum leaped (cause= threads of communication crossing)
I could count to prove my theory by taking the ratio of people on the same page, the haves and the have nots
and put forth the arguement and we can trial your skeptism with the Facts: collected, measured, anallysed and named.
and once the realisation happens we are in that reality, we do it with the mind. The physical reality hasnt altered one piece but the spirit and emotions do, and the actions change and we are conscious of the fact of the change.
Knowledge has to get passed on to stay alive, otherwise it dies in the persons mind when the person dies.
we are not born with formal knowledge, it is something we learn through living/experiencing our life.
and because of knowledge we understand our surroundings.
knowledge in information in temporal and formal time.
In temporal time, internet, coffees at cafes, working on a creative are, both the conscious and the subconscious are recieving information. the subconscious recieves everything, the conscious choses what to recieve by decisions and will power.
the effect ripples from the su conscious into the conscious and we have a sensory experience.
The effect may be true or false
the impression may be real lor unreal
what in mgy opinion does make it read has been the experience of it, and that can be proved by the change created in atmosphere and thus physical reality..
QUANTUM LEAPING is done through the threads of communication crossing each other=
friction=
energy=
heat=
plasma=
water and wind=
creation=
force=
action=
experience=
manifestation, reality going through a change in dimension=
amazement=
wow factor=
understanding something=
quantum knowledge=
reality shift=
Real.and True.
would that be scientific enough to create reasoning and logic?
I really liked the article on electrons and fairies, its interesting that neither can be proven 100% and honestly what in this world can, there is always that anomoly, that unexpected unique aspect, that surprise, we can generalise, we san sumerise, but we canot scientifically predict 100%
I think thats right, or am i wrong?
and by the way Mjr256,thanks so much for this freedom of speech site that is an eye-opener in itself,
P.S. i think your Majors tin helmet picture at the top of this page is worth a smiley face 2 🙂
Octavian, dont get hurt feelings about it, did you know that dinosaurs is just a made up name, and yes, we see the bones, but whos to say that they arent actually Dragon bones, Science?
Is one name for something more Real than another name for the same thing?
And yes Cosmology is a study I do love, and yes science measures and speculates and then discovers that sometimes the old theory is only 3/4s right,
Remember it used to be Fact that the Earth was flat, and to have a new theory could get you killed,
When a theory is created it has to have rules that are adhered to and followed, thats kinda limiting, but it has to be this way to account for proof and to create validity,
Even in cosmology we are speculating and theorising. According to Cosmology Betelguise our 8th brightest star is going SuperNova next year and we may see 2 suns in our sky,
It may be a flash of light,
it may only last a few days,
it may be seen longer
it may be too far away to create heat on earth
it may create an extra heat wave
it might make our night bright like day
it might be seen as big as our sun and moon
and because light travels over distance, it has already happened but we havent seen it yet.
thats probably my most important point,
we are not looking at the stars in real time, but only looking at the past of the star, we cal lit now, yet it has already occured and is only reaching us ‘now’.
thats the theory isnt it,
Just because something is considered natural law doesnt mean that it is the full pack of information, all it means is ‘as we understand it’ – thus far.
I have to apologize, because you seem like a nice (if confused) person, but your assertions are ridiculous. You denigrate the term “theory”, both by denouncing the Big Bang as “just a theory” and also by granting “theory” status to your wordplay involving Zeus, Jesus, and the Latin word “deus”. They share letters and some linguistic ancestry. They don’t necessarily have any more in common than David Bowie and Jim Bowie.
You then go on to state that “When a theory is created it has to have rules that are adhered to and followed, thats kinda limiting, but it has to be this way to account for proof and to create validity [sic].” Which is it? Is a scientific theory just a wild guess, or is it an educated and defensible position with evidence to back it up, testable parameters, and replicable results, all of which stands up to scrutiny by hundreds or thousands of colleagues, all of whom would just *love* to prove the theorist wrong?
Yes, once it was believed that the Earth was flat, although this notion was questioned as early as 6th century BC and established in 3rd century BC by Hellenistic astronomy. Eventually, new models of space were determined. Each of these ideas built on one another. Western medicine had a good many farces along the way, but eventually science came along and gave us germ theory. That’s how it stands. Science and math. That’s how we know our world. That’s how progress is made.
Here’s the thing about scientific theories. They must *still conform* to the original observations. In practice, Newton’s calculations about the universe allowed for very accurate predictions about the movements of the stars and planets. There were some bits that didn’t quite work, but by and large, most everything was accounted for. These small discrepancies were eventually resolved by the theory of relativity. This theory of relativity not only conformed to the original data, thereby predicting basic celestial movements *just as Newton’s model did*, but it also resolved the discrepancies.
Further, your comparison between dinosaurs and dragons is so illogical as to border on insane. Your argument seems to be that since “dinosaur” is a made-up word, and dragons are fictional, they could be one in the same. The only way this notion isn’t completely preposterous is if you contend that they are both just words, and that all notions of dragons are really based on dinosaurs. If you contend the reverse–that actual dinosaurs conform with the mythical concept of dragons–you have zero ground to stand on.
So, with that premise–that is, that our notion of dragons is really the same thing as the notion of dinosaurs–so what? It explains nothing. You are simply changing their name. We have evidence for dinosaurs’ existence, and if you change the name (say, we call them “jalapeno poppers” instead,) that doesn’t make them into actual fried foods filled with delicious cream cheese. That just means that great reptilian beasts stalked the planet many, many years ago, and they happen to share a name with a popular appetizer.
It’s not as if dinosaurs created the human notion of dragons, as dragons were a common myth long before anybody understood what a dinosaur (jalapeno popper) was. And it’s not as if the human notion of a dragon is rooted in our ancestors’ firsthand knowledge of dinosaurs, since humanity never co-existed alongside the dinosaurs. There’s no evidence to suggest we ever did; in fact, there *is* evidence to suggest that we had not even evolved yet.
Yes, we evolved. Unless the star-people you speak of were ape-like upon arrival and somehow managed to already share DNA with much of this planet’s life, there’s really no way. Never mind that they would likely have no protection against our foreign bacteria. Never mind that these ancient astronaut would have passed on their knowledge to their descendants. Never mind that we have transitional fossils and DNA comparisons suggesting a much deeper common ancestry.
You simply assemble words in whatever way looks most appealing–and granted, I write fiction, so I must give you props for creativity–but unfortunately that means that every unsubstantiated circus-tent concept that you treat as fact is actually complete and utter bullshit.
In closing, you claim to have supernatural powers, to be a seer of some kind. That’s great. I have good news for you: you’re rich. Go show the esteemed James Randi and he will give you one million dollars. You don’t even have to do it for the money. You can give it to your favorite charity. Or you can use it to buy some airtime so that you can completely rock the fields of physics, religion, and astronomy when you blow all those stuffy old scientists and philosophers out of the water by showing that stars have souls (presumably somewhere inside all that nuclear fusion.)
But, at the end of the day, at least you’re not trying to rip anybody off. And I get the feeling you’d be a fantastic writer for Doctor Who.
Regards,
J.R.
Fantastically well said, John. And I loved the “jalapeno poppers” part and the invoking of the JREF challenge. Couldn’t have said it better myself.
Jaynice my feelings are not hurt. Well if there were actually dragons’ bones then we could measure the length of the wings… instead the scientists measured the length of the dinosaurs’ tails. Are you thinking of the flying reptile the pterodactyl, and you mistaken it with the dragon?
“According to Cosmology Betelgeuse our 8th brightest star is going Supernova next year and we may see 2 suns in our sky”… JAAAYYYNICE NO, NO, NOOO that is not true, that is according to some New Age gurus. According to scientists Betelgeuse could change into a supernova after one million years or more, because there is still enough hydrogen in the star’s core to allow the thermonuclear reactions and keep it stabile. Actually Betelgeuse is not a complete red star that could collapse so soon, it has a few huge yellow hot spots on its surface, proof that there are still thermonuclear reactions inside the core … the star will survive by far longer than you think, and thank you for yor concern 🙂
oh sorry octavian, its actually mjr256 that i mean to say about the terminology of dinosaur and dragon,
Fantastic! 🙂 giggle laugh:) all i am suggesting is that there is room to explore other theories and though i cant personally prove that dragons are dinosours i can through myth and legend so as a fact that dragons lived on in stories, ( not dinosours)
Also, 🙂 you are all goin to really hate this, but dragons ARE the most majikal and mystical being in all the Universe and when the dragon armarda were magnetised to our planet, they became caought in this realm, having the ability to continue to live in some form, their hair, fur, scales, feathers, wiskers, skin, went into all life on this planet… look at the skuls of birds, cows, giraffes, horses, sea horses, etc and we can see the resembelance of dragon,
dont you see that?
remember modern science is created to explain the world, and to explain what is real, just because something hasnt been explained does not mean that it does not exist or is not true, it just hasnt been discovered how to explain it scientificlly yet.
Just because millions say that the bible is the only truth and swear on it, does not actually mean it is true,
When we evaluate the information we are given and analyse form and light and sound we come to our own conclusion,
when we follow a tradition it leads to new insights and new learning is developed and then new knowledge is pronounced
but reality is that when 1000 monkeys copy a behaviour or pattern or formula there is a quantum leap for all monkeys everywhere to emulate the same 🙂
Room to explore other theories, sure. Room to explore the kind of scientifically ignorant speculations you’re making outside of science fiction or fantasy literature forums, no. Ancients peoples had the same access to imagination as artists today and there is simply not a single shred of evidence to suggest that the dragons they wrote about had any basis in reality. Dinosaurs on the other hand are as proven as gravity. if you reject the existence of dinosaurs, I see no way we can have a meaningful discussion. You might as well question whether or not the Holocaust really happened while you’re at it. The evidence is there for anyone willing to look at and it’s, for all practical purposes, incontrovertible. So if that’s the kind of conversation you want to have, in which absolutely nothing can be accepted as sufficiently proven, do it elsewhere. Cause I’m starting to wonder if this is just a Poe and you’re just fucking with us. I have a hard time believing anyone is this divorced from reality,.
🙂 and just for further enjoyment i see The Universe as a pattern pushing outward, unfolding and opening.
Is everyone laughing alittle bit more in life now? We live in a very mysterious virtural world right now, began with radio, on to moving pictures, telephone, tv, computer, a whole new form of playing games that never existed before, its a scientific tecnological breakthrough.
the capacity has always been there in the imagination and the ideas that form in the mind, but the advancement into physical reality is understood through man made objects.
Second sight is easy and natural 🙂
everyone is wired up for it,
its just wether you put any energy into it and do something, you know, try it out for yourself, only the formula and method and proceedure are the proof in the pudding
and you all know how it goes, the more energy is nourishing something the more you get out of it.
remember back to any activity of physical sports and playground days 🙂
Satisfaction is in the proving of the knowing
if i am rich then so equally is everyone else because if energy can be taped into via sattelite, then man made it from revelations discovered in Nature. and manufacture an object to make it available to the masses, we get hypnotised by it all, drawn, absorbed,
are we even stretching our ESP muscle any more? how sure are you of that,
do you think all ther is to know is in what happened?
does that not lead you into whats happening?
i will tell you that when man makes a machine that can become a portal, then we will quantum leap through a teleportal reality, and “enter a virtual world” that can also be our past maybe or our possible future. and it will be based on the virtual reality head gear and such so that its sensory to the body eyes ears nose and there by incorporating taste in saliva responses…
and it will be like we wont need our longterm memory anymore either 🙂 because we can teleportal see what needs to be changed and do That in Real Physical Life, or teleportal to the future and see the answer you need in operation and begin implementing that in your Physical Daily Being and that would quantum leap you too,
I reckon Burts Theory is correct, and it is possible.
and all the skepics will believe when the machine is built – dare i say it – ‘as shown by the Star People’
P.S. 🙂 Please dont be angry with me, but feel free to debate away and we will all grow rich!
Dear mjr256
1)It amuses me how you quote my every sentence like a mouse nibbling at a bit of cheese. Since there is apparantly an evolutionary gap between the two of us, i will simplify things even further, before you start going all scientific on my ass.
2)Just because you own a blog exposing scams does not mean that your words will support this ‘hobby’ of yours. That is precisely where the hypocritical part comes in.
3)I have noticed that you quote every line i write (quite sad really) and then proceed to pull some bunny out of the hat. I don’t mind of course, i mean…you did call me a troll and a childish person, but coming from a person as dim and narrow minded as yourself, who chooses to pick quotes thread from thread like an animalistic habit, is really not offensive, but complimentary.
4)You are right, i haven’t been talking alphabets with you because i made the mistake of thinking you have an IQ of 100 +. It seems i was gravely mistaken.
5)So ill start real slow. I will not quote though, because that is really pathetic. I will only discuss, so focus before you copy paste this quote.
6)When i said parasite impersonator, i meant exactly that. unfortunately, you processed them as two seperate words, which really attributes to you infantile brain. A parasite impersonator, is a parasite mimicking (look mimicking up before you start ranting) person who does exactly what the phrase refers to, leech of something or someone. You are leeching off my comments, trying to find some imaginary loophole and pretending you are intellectual when really you come of as a little girl who peed herself.
7)And you still insist you are not making a big deal out of it? Ok ill put this in the simplest way i can : You have been responding to these comments and fighting your imaginary fairy tale battle against this minor scam for such a long time, that i think you are right that we shouldn’t call this ‘making a big deal’. We should call it ‘making a huge deal’. If only your cause was significant. Unfortunately, your cause is based on loose opinion and some misguided imagination, and an immense amount of desperation and troll mixed together.
8)When i called you hypocritical, you really skipped the analyze part and just copy pasted my quote, which is expected of you at this point, since your brain is barely functional. I meant that you are a person who claims to show everyone these ‘scams’, yet picks this one scam and makes a huge deal out of it, like it caused global warming.
9)No seriously, i think your confused, and i feel sorry, so i’m going to give you a guide to becoming more ‘less retarded’ .
10)http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/hypocrite
11)There, please read it a couple hundred times, because your brain functions at that speed.
12)Oh, and you still think Quantum jumping is crazy? Well, we all know that you are not tapping into another dimension, but you are acting hypocritical again by talking about quantum jumping like it is a fantasy, and then proceed to pull imaginary flaws out of my quotes.
13)http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/hypocrite
14)I put it again because i know you might have copy pasted the first one instead of reading it.
15)Quantum jumping is a flawed idea, yes. But if you really manage to motivate yourself through meditation in the sense that you see yourself doing talents that may be potentially inside of you, thats good. For example, people like you need it because they need to find a talent other than being delusional.
16)Well, about the worlds finest minds, yes i do not have proof, but your missing the point here, because neither do you, so your fighting a pointless delusion brought on by your scam paranoia.
17)You did make me laugh however, at the panty twist comment. That one was quite unlike your usual pattern of paranoid conspiracies, it was actually creative…bravo. I think it is the least retarded diss you have said thus far. I encourage you to come up with more phrases like that, because it suits your intelligence, and apparantly you have a thing for wearing panties. Yes you won’t really understand why, but i cannot describe psychology to a person with the brain function of a rock. (look up : metaphor).
18)You are actually a very good clown like person. Your knowledge is also very dim and limited.
19)Yeah, i just wrote that last bit to see you quote it and rant about it being illogical and not backed up by proof.
20)http://transferamericaonly.com/transfer-america/fear-of-scams-about-com-health/
21)There, i really do hope you get the mental health you need, for people like you really make me sad.
Oh, and i numbered my lines just so you won’t have to desperately try to copy paste every single line like a dog chasing after a car. No thanks necessary.
1. Not at all. The few sentences I singled out from your lengthy, disorganized comment were the ones that I was directly responding to. For instance:
“’This is a form of meditation that COULD work but only if you allow your brain to really focus.’
‘Again, no it can’t…'”
And then I proceeded to explain why it can’t. But now that you’ve been good enough to number each of your asinine points, I don’t have to isolate excerpts for readers to understand what specific element of your rambling trollish comment I’m responding to.
2. Now you’re dishonestly representing what I said, which was explicitly responding to your statement, “You assume we live in a world scam-free…” Oops, there I go quoting you again. I know you hate that.
3. This is not a new point but the exact same thing you said in #1. See my response #1. There is nothing sad about being expressly clear about what point you’re responding to, especially when you recognize a troll who will look for any excuse possible to distort what you say (see #2) and behave like an childish asshole.
4. I have no idea what this point is even referring to. Perhaps it you quoted an excerpt from a prior comment, I would. But I feel it’s safe to conclude this is nothing more than another ad hominem attack on my character because you can’t think of an actual criticism to any of my arguments.
5. This definitely isn’t a point worthy of its own number and is definitely just an another ad hominem attack on my character because you can’t think of an actual criticism to any of my arguments.
6. I’m not going to insult you for repeating your “parasite impersonator” insult because, you see, it’s actually helpful in letting me know what previous part of the conversation you are alluding to. But I’m afraid this too just falls into the category of an ad hominem attack on my character because you can’t think of an actual criticism to any of my arguments. And for someone who accused me of using big words, I find it funny that you’re now childishly trying to frame me as too ignorant of the English language to know what a simple word like “mimicking” means. Really, if you’re so smart, why has it taken you over a thousand words without ever making a single actual intelligent, adult criticism of my arguments. So far, all I see is you thinking of as many ways of calling me stupid as you can. This does not strike me as the behavior of an enlightened, intelligent, critical thinker with a compelling case. As for your “leeching off my comments” accusation, I’ve already explained why I quoted selected excerpts from your comments, and it had nothing to do with “leeching off your comments,” whatever that means. It certainly isn’t a valid criticism of my arguments. That’s for damned sure. It seems as though it’s YOU who are looking for any excuse (see “leeching off my comments” accusation) to attack me personally instead of my arguments. Spotting holes in your logic and your childish antics doesn’t require any work on my part.
7. Considering I’ve written thousands of articles on this site alone and this remains the only piece I’ve ever written about Quantum Jumping on any website. And considering the very title of this piece suggests I don’t take the concept very seriously, I’m sticking with what I said. What I do take seriously is scientific ignorance and uncritical thinking, which is why I’ve tried to use the comments section to further explain the scientific position and have even begun a series of articles highlighting some of the common logical fallacies made by commenters to further educate readers how to spot them. I’m happy to respond to readers, especially when I can use trolls to highlight larger points about uncritical thinking. You however just seem to enjoy picking fights with long-winded comments that can be easily be summed up by just calling the person who disagrees with you stupid. And you still haven’t made a single argument against my position.
8. Not at all. I do not see any justification for the charge that I’m hypocritical. And you still haven’t given one. What you describe in no way can be interpreted as an example of hypocrisy. You are simply not using the word correctly. And if you click in the Category side panel to the right, you’ll find I’ve written far more about more serious issues like vaccine denial, creationism, climate change denial, etc. Hell, I’ve probably written hundreds of articles about the anti-vaccine movement by now. And yet somehow this one and only piece I’ve ever written addressing this particular scam is considered by you to be my white whale. I would have probably forgotten all about Bert and QJ by now if New Agers hadn’t kept stumbling upon this piece and keeping the comments section alive. I’d much rather the comments sections of my anti-vaccine or creationist pieces were this active.
9-10. This is not two separate points. It’s not even one separate point, but the same point as #8. And again, your use of the word “hypocrite” does not match either in the very dictionary you link to. I neither put on a false appearance of virtue, nor am I acting in contradiction to my stated beliefs or feelings. Engaging in a deliberate scam myself while condemning scam artists would be an example of hypocrisy. Prioritizing a lesser scam over a more serious one (assuming I were guilty of this) is not an example of hypocrisy. It’s just misplacing one’s priorities.
11. Right back at ya, buddy.
12. Yes, I still think it’s crazy. You’ve certainly given me no reason to change my mind on the subject. And once again, you are misunderstanding what the word “hypocrisy” means. See my response #9-10.
13. This is an exact repeat of #10, which itself wasn’t its own point. I’m starting to think you’re really Michelle Bachmann with the way you continue to completely misunderstand the definition of the word “hypocrisy” even when you link to it and act as though it’s me who has misunderstood its definition. Again, see my response #9-10.
14. Again, not a new point and again, see #9-10.
15. Wow, I almost agreed with everything you said here until you had to go and ruin it with another condescending childish attempt at flinging insults instead of making a real argument. Everything else is spot on though, except that it’s an irrelevant point to the piece I wrote, which limited itself only to the claims made about QJ.
16. This is called shifting the burden of proof. It’s the job of the claimant to prove their claim. If they make an unfalsifiable claim, the default is not to just accept that it’s true unless it can be absolutely disproven. And it has nothing whatsoever to do with paranoia, which is a specific condition with a specific definition. But if you disagree, I’ve got some magic beans I’d like to sell you…if you’re not too paranoid to believe me.
17. This is the second time you said I claimed a conspiracy. Which conspiracy are you talking about? One man’s scam is not a conspiracy. You need more parties to be involved for that. But while you might find juvenile behavior impressive, I don’t. What impresses me is physical evidence and reasoned logic. And so far, you’ve yet to meet that criteria. I dare you to do better. You can’t bluff psychology. That you think anyone would buy that you’ve even spent a semester studying the subject is laughable. But tell Phineas G. I said high.
18. Again, not a real point and just another childish insult.
19. Then again, you’ve proven yourself to be utterly incapable of making even one actual argument against anything I’ve said and proven yourself to lack the maturity to engage in intelligent discourse.
20. Rather devoid of content, dotcha think?
21. Ditto.
Thanks for numbering the lines.
Mr. Author of this website,
I would like to apologize for the criticism you have been getting slammed with, at least the unmerited, ad hominem stuff. I really can’t be the judge for anything you might deserve, but for all that other stuff, I’m sorry. I found quite a few of the insults quite amazing, to be sure.
I would also like to apologize for the label I gave myself, Thomas Paine. For one, I didn’t realize Thomas Paine was an atheist. It doesn’t change the fact that he was a genius, but I’m religious and it kind of takes away from the power of my arguments to be using an atheist’s name. I meant to put it as Charles Paine, mixing the names of Charles Dickens and Thomas Paine. I see both as incredible minds, but with one writing more for the exhilaration of writing while the other wrote to make a point. Anyway, to the point at hand.
I don’t believe in Quantum Jumping. I would like to point that out firsthand. The arguments you have made against it are right on the mark, particularly about the ethics of saying something has scientific backing from big names without giving any sort of source, or even a quote we could look up on the internet. The article you wrote here really doesn’t have anything to do with the actual ability to move from one “universe” to another. I’m not saying I believe it’s possible; to the contrary, I firmly believe there is one of me, and that anything I want to learn or do must be done the same way it has been done throughout all of time. I want to point out to everyone, though, that they are arguing something that is really way off base. For everyone to attack you because you are laughing at what someone is trying to pull off is really quite silly. Pointing out the holes in a story really doesn’t merit the magnitude of insults you have gotten. Haha some were pretty vehement, too.
I would lastly like to quickly address the theme of this lengthy conversation. I realize my words are a drop in a bucket, but I feel that this point has been very poorly addressed up to this point. It is in the electrons vs. fairies article I posted earlier, so if you’ve read the article you have an idea what I’m going to try to say. I apologize for any incoherence, I have had a lot of conversation on this topic.
Science it irreplaceable. Without the scientific method we would have a fraction of the population we have now, and very little of what has come to us through progress would be available. The scientific method is a natural human process. We use it every day to do many things, including prepare food, drive, and read. We may not mentally go through every step, but the scientific method is problem solving. The problem with the scientific method is that not everything can be/has been observed and categorized. (I know you know this, Mr. Author, I’m not trying to insult your intelligence. I am just painting the canvas.)
This problem is illustrated with God. People do not believe in Him because they cannot see Him; what cannot be seen is difficult, but not impossible, to prove. It is a strike against Him, though. Also, it is hard to prove He exists based on behavior because there are so many behaviors (and existences. I am speaking from the Christian perspective) attributed to this Being within the Christian sphere alone. Also, there are many assumptions people make about this Him. “How could God allow war and other bad things to happen?” Therefore, God cannot exist. One theory. It can be explained of course, but that isn’t my point here. God has been labeled by so many different people to be so many different things that it is nearly impossible to prove, scientifically, that he exists. (A funny aside is He probably wants it that way. Something about faith.) (Another aside, that wasn’t an attempt to convert anybody to anything. Purely to make a point, it was.)
I hope this helps to explain the problem with talking science about certain topics. Some things have not been addressed and are frankly too difficult to prove or disprove, and to say something does or does not exist, or does/doesn’t do something when it can’t be proved or disproved goes against science. Belief/theory dwells within it’s own sector, and discussion is always appropriate, and encouraged by the enlightened, but to rule out for others the possibilities without ample argument other than to insult and degrade that person goes against everything that science has worked so hard to create; the discovery of truth.
And Mr. Author, I would like you to know I am not directing these comments toward you in particular. While you don’t seem to be the most open-minded person, nobody leaves their front door open at night. There are people who have commented here that don’t seem to realize how much room there is for fact.
One last thing. Any future comments by myself will be under the name Charles Paine.
Thanks Charles for the civil response. It is much appreciated…especially given the aforementioned insults from others. Though it’s possible some of the things I say in this comment may seem provocative, I assure you that my goal is not offense. The article you linked to actually did inspire one of my most recent pieces, at least the part where it discusses atheism specifically: https://skepacabra.wordpress.com/2011/06/28/once-again-atheism-is-not-a-religion/
Now I’ll try to be brief but I wanted to respond to a few things you said, especially given your courteousness. Though I’m sure this is probably what you meant, it’s worth clarifying that it’s not just that deities cannot be seen but also that the gods most people believe in can’t be falsified through any means. Indeed, one gets the distinct impression that god claims often have conveniently evolved over time to become more and more unfalsifiable in order to escape scientific scrutiny. I call it an Infinity Plus One strategy because it’s like when that kid in grade school just refuses to accept defeat and so he invents new rules to ensure he can’t ever lose. So far, it seems that any time god claims have been falsifiable, science has falsified them, so I can understand the desire to invent a god that is above any form of rational scrutiny.
Now you seem to be a pretty rational person who recognizes that more plausible explanations exist than invoking the supernatural. in at least most fields of study. So I’m just trying to figure out what specifically you need a deity to explain that isn’t more elegantly explained through natural processes. Usually, for the more rational Christians or other theists, it comes down to one of two things: origins of morality or a first cause. These are questions that I feel have already been sufficiently answered, at least to a degree, without a need to invoke the supernatural.
Of course one can posit a more plausible deity than the one described in the Bible or by the largest Christian doctrines and I entirely agree with you that it becomes difficult to even have the discussion without first clarifying the attributes of whichever deity is being invoked. That’s why I tend to stick to Yahweh as he/it is described in the Bible. This also serves a practical purpose as this is more often than not the god being invoked. Though of course I recognize that different deities can be posited.
Now you brought up faith and this is the crux (no pun intended) of my strongest criticism against religion. I quite agree with Richard Dawkins when he called faith the great cop-out. Likewise, Sam Harris refers to it as a conversation stopper. The reason science works so well is because it’s designed to be self-correcting and it demands every claim be backed by sufficient evidence while no claims are above reproach. Faith is the exact opposite; it demands claims be accepted not only for no good reason but often despite all evidence pointing to the contrary. It can’t be self-correcting because it can’t be questioned. Without wishing to be provocative, I’d call faith is a perfect tool for a totalitarian dictator to control the masses. So suffice it to say, I categorically reject the concept of “faith-based knowledge,” which I consider to be an oxymoron. To call something true is meaningless unless it can be demonstrated as such; knowledge cannot simply be conjured from the ether because a particular belief may be comforting.
Now this gets back to the portion of the article discussing atheism. As I say in my piece (linked to above), my atheism comes from the insufficient evidence for any deity, not from a dogmatically commitment to reject any evidence for a deity. While I will concede that I have a high degree of confidence that no gods exist, I recognize that that’s an unfalsifiable position. And so I argue from a position of lack of belief rather than positive disbelief. I am happy to look at any evidence that might support the existence of a god and am willing to even change my position if compelling evidence becomes available. But such evidence has yet to be presented and I don’t anticipate it ever will. So when I hear theists make the argument (or excuse) that their god ate their homework and that he/it may simply be unprovable by our methods of science, it frustrates me. You seem to be making my argument for me because if even the believer can’t come up with a single compelling reason to believe in said god, why the hell should I? I’m quite open-minded and willing to accept any claim that can be sufficiently proven. Believing in things for no good reason is not open-mindedness; it’s gullibility.
Is there any doubt that I could invent a completely fantastical belief right now on the spot that is equally unsupported by any evidence as any religion? And if I then called anyone who didn’t just have faith in that belief without question “close-minded”, would you really find that a compelling argument? Wouldn’t you just think I was insulting your intelligence? If so, you know how I feel every time someone invokes faith as an excuse to avoid proof.
In any given debate between science and religion, science is expected to play by the rules and have actual standards of evidence while religion is expected to cheat by insisting it gets to pass GO and collect $200 for no good reason. That’s a sucker’s game, one I have no interest in playing. Any god who has a problem with that can come and tell me itself.
MJR256, how the Bible describes God and what is the church’s interpretation of God? Do they refer to God as being something like the proverbial Merlin from King Arthur’s time, just that His “powers” are beyond cosmic proportions? And even so what if that story is just an allegory, God being actually a hyper dimensional Universe (most of the scientists, if not all of them, agree that there could be more dimensions of the Universe where the physical and mathematical equations just can’t work anymore). I just can’t accept the idea that the Universe was created from nothing, or that it derived from the Multiverse because different conditions. Who created the Multiverse for instance? On the other hand I can’t agree with the idea that we are God (like Shirley MacLaine said in Out on a Limb “I am God”) it is like any of my cells, that have enough information about me to clone me, could be named Octavian. Even if any of my cells have enough information about me as a whole, still they can’t survive out of my body for too long.
What if the Science is the true Bible that allows us to understand God and go deeper inside “God’s Mind”, and the Religion was the right tool that used an early interpretation of God in the absence of science? The Black Holes, Galaxies, Dark and Energy Matter, Nebulas etc existed before science acknowledge them. When I visit my relatives and I see them walking barefoot in the village I do not despise them, my mom and dad got into this life because some of them, and I am such a lucky and grateful person because of that. Do I accept the science as my Bible, yes? Do I turn my back to Religion, no for the reasons I stated above.
What it strikes me more is that the ancient Greek philosophers (for instance Democritus and Epicurus) talked about the atoms as being those very small particles that our World is made of… and they did not have the technology to even fantasize about this. Can we denounce philosophy as wasting of time?
A big problem I find with the subject of first cause arguments is that it’s pretty much guaranteed to produce only unsatisfying speculations. Postulating a deity as a solution only then raises the question of what then caused the deity, and thus really solves nothing. If the response is to simply assert by fiat alone that the deity need not have a cause, then the whole argument is self-refuting and we might as well cut out the middle man altogether and just say that maybe universe doesn’t need such a causal agent. Ultimately, any attempt at asserting the existence of a top-down designer to explain complexity or existence just leads one to an infinite regression of absurdity. It’s like the old idea that the world lays on the back of a turtle, which in turn lays on another turtle, and so on and so on, ad infinitum all the way down. The only way I see to escape this infinite regression trap is to recognize that quantum theory already has observed a seeming spontaneous generation of particles and at least for now conclude that a far more plausible explanation might lie in a bottom-up model. I also personally like to speculate that the universe is one cosmic mobius strip with no discernible beginning. But one thing seems clear to me, and that’s that asking “who created…” unjustifiable assumes there is a “who” and the far more appropriate question is, “what created…” Just because ancient people’s couldn’t conceive of any better explanation than a magic man in the sky, that doesn’t mean we should still be anthropomorphizing the universe. Ancient people’s also thought all kinds of abstract concepts had their basis in human-like beings from love to war to wisdom.
MJR256, I agree there is no supernatural immortal being holy, that created the Universe … therefore saying “what” created the Universe instead of “who” might be the right way. Still reading your sentence “… quantum theory already has observed a seeming spontaneous generation of particles and at least for now conclude that a far more plausible explanation might lie in a bottom-up model”, brings more questions than answers. There is no doubt that the three dimensional Universe lies on the very bottom of the model, I mean take out one dimension and the other two won’t have any sense. The scientists can go “almost” as close as the moment of the Big Bang, but not at its very moment, and also they can’t speculate what it was before that. Also the Multiverse theory is based on more than three dimensions (26 dimensions ) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiverse so I guess the model could be a top-down model… that would be the only plausible explanation of the existence of the space time continuum, the very bottom space. M-theory just can’t explain the 3D World without the help of a multidimensional environment. And there is one more thing, the collision of the Universes could be the same as the collision of the galaxies, and the galaxies clusters… the same thing just to a bigger scale. There is evidence that our Universe is in a collision course with a bigger Universe in the vicinity. The huge telescope from Hawaii discovered old galaxies at the “edge” of our Universe, and they were not supposed to be there. Actually the Multiverse is nothing more than one Superuniverse made of superclusters of Universes. In this case I do believe that a top-down model of the creation would be more appropriate, without the intervention of a deity, though the space with 11 and 26 dimensions that allow the Multverse exists could be … infinite intelligent, and maybe this is what the church calls the “ magic man” in the sky… and I don’t have any problem with that.
Mr. Author,
I know you have plenty to do without having a one-on-one conversation with me, but you have made valid points that I would like to address, so I will attempt to do so.
At the very first, after I posted my comments I realized that my “open door” comment could be offensive, so I wanted to explain it. Everybody checks what comes in at their front door; we aren’t obligated to let every piece of random “garbage” into our homes.
I like your Infinity plus 1 theory (I laughed because I know how true it is). It is here that I must apologize for not telling a bit about myself earlier. I am part of one of those religions that believe it is the only one that is “true.” If you want to know which I’ll tell you, but up to now I haven’t seen a purpose in bringing up my particular religious philosophies/beliefs; I tell you this much only to explain how my brain works. I can see the obvious hypocrisy in thinking all other people are wrong. This is a lengthy discussion that isn’t really relevant to what you have said at all; I hope this doesn’t make me irrational to the point that we can’t have conversation, although I can see how it would. Sorry for the tangent, but I figured you would want to know who your talking to.
I find God is convenient for explaining the inexplicable. I confess that the scientific method has the back nine on pretty much everything, but some things just can’t be accounted for by it. I mean miracles, or things that shouldn’t happen but do anyway, things that go against science, or at least against obvious or discovered science. Of course, my beliefs go much deeper than convenience, but that is one point that I come back to frequently.
I apologize for making faith sound like it was part of my argument, because it really isn’t and can’t be, at least not this argument. I don’t believe in following a trail purely because it is there. That leads to walking off of cliffs and such. Not healthy.
I read your article about atheism; I really don’t have anything to say except that I applaud you and your openness to being wrong. As I said before, that is true science. Maybe it will happen someday; who knows?
If I didn’t answer something, Mr. Author, and you want me to, just reference to it and I’ll try better to do so. I tried to group questions together, but that isn’t always effective.
im not purposefully trying to fuck anyone off, i just want to maybe open your inner senses, and try to see what points of view people actually have about what is true.
Any way, Mjr 256 is making the point that to sell an idea is a scam.
To manufacture that idea into form and make money from it is a rip-off
To referance other sources of information and use names of people who are studying the field is wrong and a lie.
Thats the basic ghist of it.
Funny really, when you can look at near anything in this world and apply these same skeptic themes, buying fruit is a rip-off, it comes from trees naturally, there-for it should be free,
buying water is a rip off! and weare all getting scamed everytime we spend money!
Telling us that some processed, coloured, enhanced with flavor, wrapt in plastic, food is healthy and endorsed by the All Blacks is a scam rip off too.
But we live in the hypnotic world of advertising and we want what others have and thus, skeptic or not about the market, everyone is getting scammed in this day and age 🙂
and what is the big complaint for?
So a guy has an idea and uses background information and experience and creates, big whoopie,
Artists do it all the time.
Sound recordings could be free and available to everyone, why pay the artist for the song and the voice and the music? Because they Made it …
we never protested when we brought an album and only liked 3 of the 12 songs on it, saying that we were ripped off 🙂
we didnt get all upset and protest when someone else liked a song that we didnt,
but in this day and age thats all people do, whinge, moan, protest,
have a bitch because someone else made alot of money off an idea and we dont like it, not one bit.
You know why, because everyone else is Jealous 🙂 yep thats right I said Jealous,
A true skeptic would cast doubt on the things that are so obvious that its a mystery everyone blindly believes because of a book,( and im talking science and religion.)
A true skeptic would question all information, and check the validity of its reality.
would you believe there was a time when there was no money, its a fact, money is man made and invented and its ruled by men too, not anything real like Nature.
I true skeptic woulda figured that 1 out long long ago.
If something has a manual, then surely its logical that we can follow the instructions and achieve the result,
My son tried this recently when he 1st sat behind the wheel of my car.
Oh how he knew it all, because he reads this and that, all about road rules, driving, and the mechanics of the vehicle, + he had the observation factor of carefully watching me until his day came.
And could my son ‘just start her up and drive?’ well no he couldnt.
hes stalled it and bunny hopped and stalled it and didnt know the accelerators levels of pressure or the brakes, and I tell you now I was quite skeptical about allowing my son to drive my car, fearing damages, plus the rapid memory loss of all that reading, put me on edge too,
but in the end my son gained his licence and is a capable driver on our roads, and now i am skeptical about every other car out there and hope nothing bad ever happens to him in traffic. after all alot of people out there get their learners licence straight off the computer and have zero experience of handling any actual vehicle before hitting the road. Im pretty skeptical about the safety factor of this and i think its far more real than if someone made some money from an idea.
wake up everyone, and lets get our senses working on what is real concerns and what is mere petty jealousy.
Bottled water definitely is a rip-off, especially given that the U.S. has the cleanest tap water in the world. But fruit isn’t publicly owned. Those who grow it, own it and not everyone lives within optimal conditions to grow it themselves. But this avenue gets away from my point. It’s not the product itself that is the scam but the false advertising attached to said product that is the scam.
If Bert wanted to sell cassette tapes or CDs that were marketed strictly to be listened to while meditating, I’d have no objection to it. It’s his marketing that’s crooked and dishonest. And what my specific beef is that he’s furthering overall scientific ignorance, which spreads to other forms of pseudoscience because if one is fooled into thinking this is what quantum mechanics is all about, they are much more likely to buy other bogus product advertised as applying quantum principles. And there are a LOT of bullshit products that exploit people’s ignorance of quantum theory.
So it’s not that I’m that concerned over this one specific rather minor scam but in how it contributes to an entire industry of pseudo-scientific scams. This directly conflicts with my interests as a science and critical thinking advocate. Now you might not care that people’s ignorance is being exploited but I very much do. I think the world would be a far better place if more people had a proper understanding of basic scientific principles and were equipped with strong bullshit detectors that would prevent them from being taken advantage of. And nothing about what you’ve posted on this site suggests to me that you’re any authority on what a “true skeptic” ought to do.
Jaynice, to get to Burt’s parallel Universe you need to perform an instant OBE. MRJ256 stated on this blog that there is no such a think as OBE’s, and I gave an example with the most famous OBE in the World described in the book Out on a Limb… The so called OBE was nothing more than a Lucid Dreaming. In other words everything happens inside our brain, the consciousness, or soul does not physically flies to new frontiers… we really need spaceships for that!
I really was hooked up to New Age and though I love some of the meditation programs, I realized that because many of the New Age writers pushed the things to extremes to get their books sold… they really lost any credibility. Anyway, I am not so sensitive and get upset if someone makes me a Jackass or tell me to fuck off, or worst…
Octavian, to Quantum Jump into Your parallell Universe happens as quickly as reading a new book or checking out that website you wanted information from,. Seriously it is.
And sad as it it that you got hurt feelings because Shirley McLean told some lies, more sad is the lies you listen too on your world news everyday and believe because of the Evidence Dispalyed before your eyes
No matter who we look up to in this world some days we are genuine and some days we are faking it.
and getting all hurt about it or flaring up about it, is in other words, just in your mind too!
Yes.
So how real is that then?
Jaynice, no one can hurt my feelings, not Shirley MacLaine, and not even you. What Shirley experienced was real… just not paranormal. She didn’t know about that so she didn’t lie. Your OBEs, MJR256’s, Shirley’s OBE, mine and others were real just that not paranormal. MJR256 was right when he said that all the OBE’s are nothing more than Lucid Dreaming. I bet that even now Shirley has no idea that her famous OBE was nothing more than a Lucid Dreaming, and I am sure that if she knew she would “run” to Oprah’s show and tell it to the World (in the 80’s she told to the World at Oprah’s show about her movie and her book Out on a Limb, and about her “paranormal experience” around the Moon). No doubt that Shirley seeks the truth no matter what. If Oprah had the courage to tell it to the World that she was raped by one of her relatives, I don’t see why Shirley would hide the truth about her Lucid Dream around the Moon… as long as she makes an effort to understand the truth. Of course I was sad when I found out that the OBE’s are nothing more than Lucid Dreaming, and even when MJR256 told me the truth still I had some doubts until I opened the book Out on a Limb and read again her experience, then I watched the clip from the Net… and that convinced me).
I had hopes the OBEs were real because those would be great rides to different Worlds, without High Tech, and just sitting on the couch… and it turned out that they are just entertainment ha, ha, ha. Now everything tumbled down, the OBEs, the Past Life Regressions, Star Visitors contactees… everything is nothing more than Lucid Dreaming.
Quantum Jumping does not induce you to the Theta or Delta state of mind to achieve a Lucid Dreaming, and even if by a chance you get it, your conscious mind will never leave your body to meet your successful doppelganger from a Parallel Universe. The science evolves to an exponential power and maybe in the near future all the humans will be successful because of that… and not because those who write self-help books sprinkled with magic words about the so-called successful alteregos . There are no shortcuts, we just have to go to college, study hard and do the right thing. Not too many famous people were autodidacts, the rest of us really have to go to college to achieve something and help the society move ahead.
Well said, Octavian.
Quantum mechanics is the watered down, leave alot of equations out of it, Quantum Physics.
If you look at basic Quantum Theory you will understand that it works in waves, and the particles are erratic.
(so do emotions i might add)
The atomic world is nothing like the world we know and see, because it is the Nature of The Universe.
As far as I can tell, everything is the nature of the universe. And though Quantum Physics remains a great mystery to science, we do know that it simply does not operate the way Bert and New Age spiritualists would have us believe it does. If you want to get a better understanding of our current knowledge of Quantum Physics, read Stephen Hawking, not some Astral Projection book in the New Age section of the book store.
when ever i had an OBE, the experience quite shocked me because it was not induced consciously.
The 1st experience long long ago was when i was literally sobbing my heart out on my bed, desperately needing the comfort of my absent mother, (i think i also cried out mummy a few times)
Next thing is, i am hovering above this crumpled little mass on the bed… it was me… i was still sobbing … the greater me felt so sorry for the crying me and leaned down touching and holding the body in comforting love,… now weirdly enough i couldnt hear the sobbing me, i could just see the back of the body and the movement,
only when i entered the body did i realise that i had had the strangest experience,
not only, but it so greately impacted me that i actually stopped crying , as an instantaneous thing.
and wondered what the heck just happened,
, and also, while all this inner questioning was going on, i also felt Loved, like I felt what Real Love feels like when it is given, and man it comforted me so much at that moment and in many more moments over the years as a memory.
and now i have to be skeptical when i say. My greater being “had hands” or “looked like a water-balloon me, kinda see through and with a soft golden colour” because thats my sub-conscious, trying its guts out through information to create a visual memory of the picture, and thats all that my visual has on it at the moment coz i obviously havent seen enough to have a clear sight of this greater me,, the only clear sight i do have is of the real me on the bed, and even that memory is fuzzy now .. so i am skeptical about the colour of the duvet, that looks decidedly dark in my memory, yet probably wasnt the reality.
But, know what, nothing on this earth will take away the mystery and wonder and majik of this experience that still has power to this day, to evoke very strong feelings in me around love and comfort, I can still be touched by it.
This is not to be confused with the different experience where we go through mist and a door.
Ive even had a lucid dreaming experience in the extreme pain of a migraine, went through 2 pillars, hot pink, changing to fluro green when i passed through … into a library… with the lack and white tile floor……and bathed in this light so white yet warm that i was searching for its source,…
it lasted in real time and is full of images that i can vividly and easily recall. yet still an experience, though not an OBE, more a vision quest thingy where you come back with information.
Still spontaneous, in the sense that i am not willing the experience to happen, or in control of the experience,
yet diferent to OBE. because when i come back from the experience that felt so real, i do realise that something has changed….. time of day… dog came… dog left…so , dreaming does happen in time both temporally and formally at the same instance.
As yet i have not seen inception but i will now.
Hearing people recount their OBE’s is just not a very interesting story for me. I’ve had dozens myself. But not once have I ever literally left my physical body. And neurobiology has already unlocked what I feel is the smoking gun of the OBE mystery, stimulation of the posterior part of the right superior temporal gyrus in the brain. It sounds complicated but neurobiologists have even gone so far as to induce OBE’s in the lab with the use of a helmet that stimulates that specific portion of the brain. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Out-of-body_experience#Neurology_and_OBE-like_experiences
It’s an hallucinatory reaction in the same way that drugs can induce hallucinations. I don’t see any aspect to OBEs that cannot be explained with this neurobiological-based solution. I’d personally rather accept the best available knowledge than choose to believe something is a mystery forever when it isn’t. I for one find the truth about OBEs far more interesting than building a mystery where none exists just for the sake of escapism. I find infinitely more wonder and amazement in the real science behind how our brains work than any gained by an artificial mystery.
well i know i do leave my body, 1ce i was digging in the garden and i felt like i was trembling on the inside greatly, then i thought i was having a seizure, i fought very hard to remain in my body and said please no a few times, coz i felt if i left my body i might not come back, and my baby son was walking out the ranchslider to meet me. i resisted strongly and didnt leave, and i was very frightened.
I think all you people are confusing something very important here, OBE to me means exactly what it says Out of Body. not in a dream, not having a meditation, not flippen visioning something as a hallucination, OBE is not a la la new age talk flossed up in glamor, and i doubt that you have had one at all other wize you would know how bloody frightening it can make you feel like deathly.
Anyway, i dont read new age books, i have one, the I Ching, i got it near 30 years ago accidently thinking it was a game, one day you will have your scientic proof in front of your eyes on paper and then, maybe, you will see.
I did buy Stephen Hawkings book many years ago when it first came out on his quantum realitivity theory and i had to read it a few times coz it was fully like a new language, Im actually skeptical that you have read this by the way, are you sure you dont just refer to him because he was the first to produce the theory, random as it was, and actually have some translated versions of what exactly he states in his book by other authors EXPLAINING what they figure it all to mean.
If you can understand the workings of Stephen Hawkings as written by Stephen Hawkings, then I would like to hear it.
I just looked at your wikipedia webpage that you offered, and do you not see that it actually says ‘OBE-like’ experiences, different to OBE experiences, yet for those who have never had an actual OBE, they thought it was one.Now isnt part of analysing scientific information supposed to be about the facts as they are presented
All i see now is that you are looking for answers, and building your own form of escapism by filtering the truth as you want it to be known 🙂
It also says that spontaneous OBE is phenomenologically more complex.
and the head gear that you are talking of in virtual reality is exactually what i suggested will be the teleportal of the future.
Its not hard to work that out.
Jaynice, “I think all you people are confusing something very important here; OBE to me means exactly what it says Out of Body. not in a dream, not having a meditation, not flippen visioning something as a hallucination”… Well, the same thing Shirley MacLaine said about her famous OBE when she described the big and beautiful galaxy beyond the Moon in her biographical book “Out on a Limb”. Are you smarter than Shirley MacLaine? What it strikes me more, is that she has lots of astronomer friends and none of them had the decency to tell her the truth… and that’s just disrespectfull. Yeah, I had a vivid OBE in a tunnel, induced by self-hypnosis, and I did not agree with MJR256 when he told me that my experience was nothing more than a Lucid Dreaming… now I’m convinced, and paradoxically the “detail” from Shirley’s OBE allowed me to understand that MJR256 was right. Jaynice, let it go, I know it hurts, I wished MJR256 to be wrong… you have no idea, but he is not.
we study to seek answers, then we apply the knowledge, we use it ourself and we show others the way to our understanding,
when you leave college or university, and join your profresssion then you become Burt. you profit from your knowledge and your study.
Some people study dinosaurs and some people study stars, some people study far out stuff that i cant yet get a grip on, like how did they figure out all the sound waves that created all the radio messages and tv messages, how did they figure out the direct link for instantaneous sound travel, every frequency unique, just on a different number….called hertz…. Hurts my Mind!
If, who ever those way before our time scientists are, only knew of the past they would never have fathomed it, never. somewhere new information was recieved.
God or Star People.
we are yet to know.
Dear mjr256,
I had hoped, that after mocking you and trying to show you a mirror to allow you to see the clown you truly are, that you would not annoy me with another tiresome, lifeless, and dull speech (slang term here is ‘bitch fit’) about how you seem to have figured things out.
Unfortunately, i was wrong.
I really would like to argue point by point, but amusingly, this new speech of yours is just scrap from top to bottom.
You seem to have shifted a little, i mean you are still throwing traits that you possess yourself at me, like being a trollish typer, but a new word i see now is childish. Amusingly, your infantile brain thinks a child and a troll are one and the same. A child could not have typed any of that, i assure you.
Hypocrisy, i do understand. Your hypocritical point of view, you apparantly don’t. You fail to catch up intellectually with my arguements and then blame it on ‘no proof’ and ‘illogical reasoning’. This, my friend, is what people like to call a ‘sore loser’. I mean, in this case you didn’t lose anything ofcourse, but you are behaving like one would when he loses, and cannot admit that he/she did.
I am surprised at how far you fail to catch up though. You claim i distort, yet the only thing you got out of my longish arguements was that you are stupid? and to think that the reason you never got them was because i didn’t choose to quote you quote by quote, like the way your primitive method of arguing seems to revolve around quoting.
You find it laughable that i studied a single course of psychology?
Well, coming from a person devoid of a single ounce of logic, that truly is an empty insult. In fact, i think it is more hurtful towards you than me. I have kept my logical way of typing and my psychological method of typing seems to have put you in a little girl’s fit? that only means it is working. It also says much about your mental weakness.
Magical beans? go take your medications…
Ah, the rest of your blabber seems to be repeating the three words : Illogical, and No proof.
A repititive person is a person who has no basis to his/her arguement.
The reason i am not arguing here is because you have yet to present me with something other than paranoid ranting (yes a specific condition which relates to YOU.) Oh, and apparantly you think i am not smart because of the fact that you cannot catch up to my arguments…wow.
Oh, and as for the claim theory of yours. Well done, textbook, just like a troll would have done. However, the claim does not belong to me, i merely defended it. And when you make a claim, you do not have to directly prove it. You have as much proof as i do on this matter, there is no role specific actions.
You know, i think most of your speech is out of spite that you cannot argue at all. Although the part that was most laughable was your supposedly boasting fact about you typing thousands of articles. That does not make you any less hypocritical, it only makes you a tiresome troll.
I am dissapointed, i was hoping you would actually present something less hysterical this time, but it seems that your need to be spoon fed the proof is impulsive.
Listen, go to elementary school, learnt he basics, then come back and type like a madman. And please go look up hypocrisy.
My arguements still stand. When your IQ reaches three digits, i think it will become a little clearer to you.
Oh, and it is also very amusing the way you used those numbers i gave you. Look up ‘dignity’ while your looking for your alphabet blocks, mkay?
There is a reason, a reason why people like you end up trolling replies, and acting intellectual online rather than becoming successful, it is because idiots usually sink to the bottom, and the smart ones go to the top.
When you type your next rant, please take a mood stabilizer before you do it, i really am getting tired of having to deal with your pregnant mimicking (there it goes again) mood swings.
You are also slacking off in this argument. You have yet to make your points clear, i mean all you have done thus far is quote me, quote some other people, and then throw the word ‘illogical’ and ‘childish’ around like it makes you sound smart. Please, grow up. And present something that is classified as ‘argument’ and not ‘garbage’.
I have tried to find ways to call you stupid? Are you that dim? i have set your status AS stupid, i do not need to call you anything. The assumption for the previous comments always had the default with you being as mildly retarded, it is why i am not bothering myself too much about the way you play with words like it makes you any smarter.
And I would have hoped that you’d have stopped being such a boring little troll. So I guess we’re both disappointed. Goodbye.
Mr. Author,
I guess your next article should be to define what a scam is in detail. Because some people here seem to think that it is ethical how Bert (or whatever his name is) is advertising his product.
Hi Alex 🙂 Yes Finally ! Thankyou for your easily understood questions and comments and expansions,
Why any one would keep a limiting closed arguement going for so long is not for me to fathom out ( hey, should we be skeptical about this )
nah just kidding.
Before Quantum Jumping it was the successful Sci Fi movie and sitcom STARGATE. Burt just did a Massive Plagiat… not a Massive Jump. There are no short cuts, jump gates, and Burt is not Merlin, and we do not live in the King Arthur‘s time. OBEs, Past Life Regressions, Reincarnation etc do not exist; they are just Lucid Dreaming, nothing paranormal… and you already know that. The people should be encouraged to go to school and study!
Octavian, how do you think the reknowned scientists, archeologists and and geologists and biologists and alchemists made their innivative works, do you suggest it was from schooling?
then you would be wrong, because it is from studying the Nature of everything, as in Feild Work.
That is what you are reading and studyin at school, other peoples investigations and theorys and inventions and experiments,
why, because they wrote it all down wanting pople to learn what they discovered.
there is not only those who study books to learn, but also those who take on experimenting themself by practical application, and also those who take study and question it and discover more and other interesting things, thats why the world progresses, not because we all read the same books, but because we are all unique and want to know as much as we can in our field of interest.
Tell the American Indians that Merlins world does not exist; tell the Maori in New Zealand that majik isnt real and that their primative methods are nothing paranormal, and they will smile and take all that you say with a huge grain of salt , knowing that their Knowledge is Ancient and Everlasting and Unchanging,
When the book comes out and the machines to scientifically test All that is Nature, then you can come to your sure conclusion,
but we are still discovering and thus you do not know it all, from books yet, and quite possibly it is not possible for 1 person to know Everything or to have All the experiences that are on offer in this world in physical and metaphysical ways.
Perhaps studying is the best thing for you and thats why you do it, but its not what everyone in this world does and each to their own I say
Jaynice, I don’t get your post, those Maori in New Zealand, or others you talked about, still live in the “Marlin’s World” without helping the society become a better one. ” how do you think the renowned scientists, archeologists and geologists and biologists and alchemists made their innovative works, do you suggest it was from schooling?” Well, I do not believe in alchemists, and for all the others yes, the school opened up their minds (there are some exceptions of autodidacts, though they did not use the Stargates, Burtgates, or snapped their fingers to achieve those great things… they studied hard and learned math and physics at home by themselves using the books). We have bathrooms with hot showers, TV sets in our living rooms, cars, high tech, we live two times longer than our ancestors and we know so much about the Universe and all of these are because the exceptionally hard work of the scientists, not because those who still live in Marlin’s World. It is the quality of the life you live, not only that you just live it, no matter what. Give a chance to any person in the World, even to those Maori from New Zeland, and they could become one of the best mathematicians or physicists in the World. I told you that we live in a four dimensional Universe therefore we are delimited by its constrains, so don’t look for miracles, they do not exist… and you already know it. Yes there are people who can fly like Merlin but this is because the scientists could put “the finger” on it … and this is only the beginning http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-566434/Pictured-Rocketman-flies-Alps-jet-pack-strapped-back.html or here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-66AcTo9TU or here http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x6vn7v_swiss-man-flies-solo-across-channel_news
Yes self hypnosis and visualization work, and if you picture yourself the way you want to became, and you work hard to become that person you aspire…then you could become that one. But no matter how hard I vizualize you becoming a better person, you will never become one if I am not telling you about that and you do not want to learn and work harder to become that person I want you to be. There are thousends of meditation programs that say the same thing like Burt… “see yourself the person you want to be and you will become that person, …etc”. Burt plagiat the Sci Fi movie “Stargate” and “Quantum Leaping” for his own benefit and he could get in trouble for that, plagiarism is a federal crime.
and by the way, the Sit Com you refer to is Quantum Leaping and it was a Way Cool show, but nothing at all like Stargate 🙂
and I will tell you something else, just because you visualise something a zillion times for yourself does not actually mean it will become your reality at all, in fact you will find that more times than not, visualising anything for yourself will lead to future disapointment.
Best not to put too much energy into visualising what you want, simply because every other person on this earth is not visualising your wants, and may be in conflict with it ever happening.
just stick to a plan of action and and act on your plan.
Be Real and True to yourself and that alone will get you all the respect you could desire. Scientist or Mystic. we all have our own path to travel in this life time and we should Honour who we are and what we are and not let anyone elses opinion of what is right or wrong keep us from our true potential, in what ever field that is.
forgive me if i repeat my self, i sent a reply form my email but i cant find it here.
Plagiarism is when you steal someones idea and profit from it.
I dont think God or the dead are going to sue anyone.
Im pretty sure no one has the copyright on Self hypnosis or meditation techniques.
and just to repeat myself further, Chemistery and Medicine come from Alchemy.
Mystics and Shaman do help society but in ways that are different to pieces of paper or surgical impliments, and all it takes is a stirring of the hand or the humming of the word.
Did you know that scientists are responsible for the death of millions through germ warfare?
Did you know that WW1 still holds the record for mass death, not only on the field but also back home to every country when soldiers returned they breathed a bug that killied everyone that come in contact through breath, people 18-40 died buried with no funeral in mass graves that are nothing but holes dug in the earth, and the world had the biggest orphan population ever known, it was called the Spanish Flu and you really should learn this history.
The Industrial revolution only began 120 years ago,electricity, trains planes and automobiles,
and so has children dying of cancer, and being allergic to foods, and death by the vehicle.
I can include many more things like the advancement of warfare, and though you may well believe that we live longer, you may also believe that the world is overpopulated, and i would actually dissagree with both because it fully depends on what you are counting.
I mean its all well and good to study and learn, but Investigate too, dont just rattle off other peoples this and that, Discover for yourself. and Know.
Chemistry and Medicine most certainly do not come from alchemy any more than astronomy comes from astrology. And science and technology are simply tools; it’s the men who wield them who are responsible for whether those tools are used for good or ill. And while Spanish Flu was indeed a horrible pandemic, it had nothing to do with germ warfare. The oldest documented case of cancer comes from ancient Egypt, in 1500 b.c.e., quite a few years before the Industrial Revolution (http://cancer.about.com/od/historyofcancer/a/cancerhistory.htm). And Hippocrates was writing about food allergies over 2000 years ago (http://www.thesuperallergycookbook.com/PDF/FoodAllergypaper.pdf). And I’m fairly confident people were dying in horse-drawn carriages and ships long ago too. You seem to have also left out little things like the Bubonic Plague (cause of 75 million deaths) and Smallpox (cause of 300–500 million deaths in the 20th Century alone, not counting 1% of those infected since 10,000 b.c.e.). These killers would still be prominent today if not for modern medical science.
🙂 Seriously Mjr256, Alchemy is the root stem of chemistry and medicine. Tubal-Cain back in near the beggining of time was the first metalurgist who extracted gold and silver.
And Astromony came 1st before Astrology, the ancient Assyrian people maped and named the stars and these names are still used today.
In their texts they name Earth as the 8th planet of our solar system, which it is if you count from the outside in to the sun.
How did they know this,
Obviously they did not make it up because astronomers still use their information to identify and seek out the stars above us.
P.S. Lukemia is a new disease which kills many children, we dont know the half of the implications of using electricity yet, and we only use the alternating current and the residual dc current is a floating invisible energy that cant seem to ground itself back into the earth or raise up to the ozone,
Electricity in its natural state is ac dc but when we only use 1/2 what happens to the other 1/2, where is it? what is it doing?
Actually, Hephaestus came before Tubal-Cain. If we’re going to cite mythology, why stop at Jewish mythology? There were also alchemists in Harry Potter. But here in reality, no one has successfully performed a feat of alchemy. It is as much a pseudoscience as astrology.
And again, cancer was first diagnosed by the Ancient Greeks in the fourth or fifth century B.C.E. Hippocrates was using arsenic to treat Leukemia back then. It simply wasn’t officially diagnosed until 1845 (http://rebeccanelson.com/leukemia/history.html). Any attempt to simply invent a scapegoat on the grounds that “we dont know the half of the implications of using electricity yet” is simply an argument from ignorance and not a valid means of determining the true cause of these diseases.
Well said Jaynice “Plagiarism is when you steal someones idea and profit from it”. Burt was inspired by those two sitcoms when he created Quantum Jumping. I am sure that he wouldn’t think about the parallel universes if he wouldn’t watch one, or both sitcoms (or hear about them). I think the story with those scientists that agree with his program is just a smart way to make you not think about Stargate and Quantum Leap. In the Stargate sitcom the people can choose the parallel Worlds before they jump. In Quantum Leap the character just finds himself in one of these Worlds without choosing them.
Here is an example of plagiarism in music, though the American band “The Doors” denied that their song “Hello I love you” was inspired by the riff and song structure “ All Day and All of The Night” of the British band “The Kinks”. Here are the Doors http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hzM71scYw0M And here are the Kinks with “All Day and All of the Night” http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F4DV-5d6a5g
George Harrison from the Beatles got in trouble plagiarizing his number one song “My sweet Lord” and he had to pay $587,000 to “Chiffons” because he was inspired by their song “He’s So Fine” http://www.songfacts.com/detail.php?id=1172 George never admited and like the Doors he said that he was inspired by a different song … There are very few people who admit their copyright violation and Burt is one of them.
Above in the last sentence actually I misspelled, it should be IS NOT instead of IS “…There are very few people who admitted their copyright violation, and Burt IS NOT one of them.” … (he won’t admit it, not in a million years)
If i remember correctly, the Quantum Leaping programme on tv, is where the guy dials up the time period and goes into this machine that takes him into one of his past lives wher he may be a woman or a man and in various situations, he uses his now time knowledge and strengths to adjust that persons life into a better one by the decisions he makes within their body. by the actions he takes within their body. If i remember he only has a certain amount of time that he can effect the change in and he jumps into the past life reality at a crucial point where he can force the change into their reality. when his time is up he is brought back into the now.
Jaynice, anyway you got the message. I talked about the Stargate sitcom because it was more appropriate; you talked about the Quantum Leap.
Actually I don’t use any door, gate, stargate, I just imagine I snap my fingers, in my meditation session, to get to a different World, a Magic One, and once I am there I snap my fingers once again while I say “I want a nice ballerina to appear on the table in front of me and start dancing”… and wow, it is so much fun you have no idea.
Meditation lucid dreaming and dreaming are not out of body experiences
Now Burt may have had an out of body experience and for a price he wants to sell it to yo, and i hope he didnt sell his soul for the experience, because God wants them all back
The Quantum leaping show had this gy Sam that was able to enter his past life sel and affect a change. he had a certain amount of time to enact the change and while he was inside the body of his past self he was Sam.
When his time was up and he had to return to the machine that transported him there, same returned to his body in the now and the person in his past life time returned to their physical senses with a profound life altering change to their psyche.
An out of body experience happens when the body is in a heightened emotional state and the adrenilin is pumping and the heart is racing, the body is either shaking internally or externally, When i have an OBE all i see is my body and the physical reality it is in, no faeries,
and it feels like all your being IS Bliss and from that position you do things to the body just like a loving mumma, and when you re-enter the body there is a Transformation in your physical bodys psyche.
an OBE’s 1st name is Near Death Experience, so Be Aware of that fact. Death is Real.
somehow Burt reckons hes been able to combine the out of body experience with meditation, but im not sure if thats possible because the formula is the opposite (relaxation, no stress v intense reaction intense stress )
Transformation is very different to Realisation,
Transformation feels instantanious the moment you are back into your physical senses
Realisation happens in the mind. Transformation bypasses the mind altogether.
Jaynice, I gave you proof that the OBEs are nothing more than Lucid Dreaming. You watched that clip from Out on a Limb with the most famous OBE of all times, and you realized that it was nothing more than a Lucid Dreaming because you couldn’t see that superb galaxy behind the Moon without seeing it also from Earth. I am not sure what you don’t understand, why it is so hard for you to understnad? Lucid dreaming are real, life like, that’s why we were impressed when we had them… just that they are not paranormal, end of discussion.
Next time when you will have an OBE snap your fingers and tell yourself that you want Burt to appear in front of you playing the drums like a rock star while you drink a glass of expensive wine … and you will have all of these. Burt is the American Monk, he has time for meditations and he may have Lucid Dreaming at will… just that his conscious mind does not leave his body to visit his alter-egos from different Worlds.
“When I have an OBE all I see is my body and the physical reality it is in, no faeries,” watch the Out on a Limb clip again and you’ll see that Shirley watched her physical body from above when she returned from the Moon. I told you, in reality nobody can see that huge galaxy from the Moon; the galaxies are too far away, so that experience was nothing more than a Lucid Dreaming.
“Transformation feels instantaneous the moment you are back into your physical senses
Realization happens in the mind. Transformation bypasses the mind altogether.” Yes I experienced all these things when I had my OBE. Now I know that you also had ordinary Lucid Dreams like me and all the others, no matter how unhappy you seem to be. The difference between Lucid Dreaming and OBEs are that the OBEs are induced thru self-hypnosis and Lucid Dreaming occurs while you sleep or fall asleep and suddenly you understand that you dream… the rest is the same, “magic” not real. All this things occur when we are in the Theta or Delta state of mind.
“…so Be Aware of that fact. Death is Real.” Of course Death is real nobody is above it, not even those who lie themselves with the past life regressions…. those are lucid dreams too.
“somehow Burt reckons has been able to combine the out of body experience with meditation” those are fabrications, we already know that OBEs are not real.
I’ve made a decision that conversation on this particular article has gone as far as it’s going to go. One day away from this piece’s two-year anniversary, I feel every side has had their say and arguments have been repeated again and again. I no longer feel readers are benefiting from the discussion, so I’m closing this article to further comments as of July 5, 2011.
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Poem a day for 20 April: That quantum leap
Planet Posidonia. Photo by Robert Rath from over here at Robert’s website. This morning I spotted an ad for ‘Quantum Jumping’, which is a meditation program of some sort. I was particularly taken with the line ‘…on an inter-dimensional quest for